Chaos

Look who forgot about this topic. Yeah, I've decided that non-Brandon are perfectly cool. Go for it!

No, but then I took it back because wilson and sortitus were being poor leaders.

More reason to hate them. I mean, love them. Ahem.

I'm not surprised the math's confusing him, though. He's very scientific, but at least from Writing Excuses, he isn't super math-inclined.

I don't know what you're talking about. I regained that power. Or stole it back. Whatever.

...... I have days requested off work so I can play..... I'm jealous. Basically, my Thanksgiving involves doing so much work that I won't have much to do that week. (So, if you were one of the people in the ShardCast topic who wished for one over Thanksgiving, now you know the real reason for that delay )

What!? I can't believe you didn't know... We thought you vanished Come talk to me about it sometime. Also, Chris: GOLDEN SUN DARK DAWN IN A WEEK!!! Are you excited as I am? I doubt that's possible, but still!

So I decided to tweet Brandon asking this, and he gave me a three tweet answer! Short version, yes to redshifts. Here's how it went. EricLake: In M:AoL, will bendalloy's time dilation result in redshifting of light going in/out of the bubble? #weescience BrandonSandrson: I've been working on the science of it. Basically, I've been treating it as a gravitational time dilation. BrandonSandrson: But only focused inward, and equally, on those inside the bubble. It's making my brain hurt a bit, but I think I've got it working BrandonSandrson: I think this means yes to a gravitational redshift. But...it gets wacky. Trying to decide just what it would do is tough.

Oh, you already beat me to it, sad day. I'll go tweet Brandon this link.

Unifying the five senses is the key to ultimate cosmic power. Thus, freshening the air, making sure you look awesome to everyone else, and making sure you wash your hands eventually give you this ultimate power. This ultimate power, unfortunately, only allows you to open an ancient artifact from a long lost civilization: a DVD drive. Dr Pepper

Now that's interesting. I'm looking, and I'm pretty sure "Tanavast" is not the name of a Herald. Interesting, interesting.

This doesn't really work, because the Lorentz factor is a number defined by velocity. It only comes into play when we're talking about time dilation caused specifically by differences in velocity. I was simply calling any cadmium/bendalloy shift with the variable gamma. I could have called it any letter I want, because never did I use the word "Lorentz factor" or its mathematical definition. I used gamma because that would signify to the community of physicists that there is time dilation. I could name it alpha, beta, zeta, epsilon, mu, B, n, box, heart, or cow. It's notation. I chose the most practical one.

For cadmium, you'd just choose a different proper time. The cadmium redshift would be equivalent to the whole rest of the world except those in the cadmium bubble burning bendalloy. And no, any significant shift in time would result in massive redshifting. As Timemaster said,

I was thoroughly entertained by that, however, I'd argue that "learning how to think" is the whole point of higher level physics (certainly, it shows in my upper division mathematics classes). Learning to think logically is the whole point. But there IS no difference in gravitational potential. So what would cause the change in wavelength? The time dilation factor is what would cause it. Light will travel at the same speed regardless of reference frame. Here, inside the bubble, we're in a different reference frame than we would be outside of it. The only physics we're invoking here is that light will travel at the same speed (the speed of light postulate). It should fall out mathematically. We know that c = λf. f = 1/T where T is the period of time between each wave peak. So, the frequency is a function of time. Because we are changing time, and not the speed of light (by the speed of light postulate), that means: c = λf = λT, and if we have a time dilation factor (in special relativity, we call it γ), that means c = λ(γT). Already, we can see that our frequency f has shifted due to that γ factor. We don't have to know the mechanism for this simple math to work. This is basically the mathematical version of Timemaster's explanation.

Hey, that's a really good point. "Mistborn (series)" then, would be a good title for that. That isn't a proper noun (unlike Mistborn Trilogy).

Oh, I'm all for stealing their data (I'll check with Steve from Stormblessed about doing that with the Stormlight Archive wiki). Not sure if we could close down their versions. If we could, yeah, that'd work. Elantris (book) for individual books. Mistborn Trilogy would be without parentheses since there is no need for a qualifier like that. In-universe pages might have parentheses, too. For example, the main Elantris page should redirect to Elantris (book). That would mean there's Elantris (city), too. The Hero of Ages (book). All series pages? I don't know about that. Imagine Stormlight Archive as a category page. Now, if we had pithy info on the Stormlight Archive, that would go in a Stormlight Archive article (which I now notice there is not one. But I digress), but the SA category would be so huge with the list of its members that that would be clunky. So, I want there to be a Mistborn Trilogy article, for series-wide information, independent from the category page.

I'm not seeing your logic here. The fact that a photon has properties of particles like momentum does not invalidate Timemaster's argument, because a single photon will still have a particular wavelength. So your argument basically boils down to "since it isn't gravity or velocity, relativity doesn't apply." I'd say, irrelevant of mechanism, if there is some time dilation, there must be a shift in frequency. My understanding of Timemaster's argument is this (assuming a bubble in which time passes more quickly): Light is emitted from within the bubble at a particular frequency. The peaks of the wave hit the bubble boundary at a particular rate, 1/second to make math easy. But outside the bubble, only 1 second passes for every 10 seconds inside the bubble. So now 10 peaks are coming out of the bubble every second. My argument is that light doesn't really work that way. You don't count the peaks to measure how much light is entering or exiting a given space, you count photons. Counting the waves is irrelevant. The fact that light is also a particle doesn't mean it's any less a wave. That's like saying since an electron exhibits wave properties, it is no longer a particle. I'll let Timemaster explain more He's a physics grad student (thus a few years ahead of me), and I'm sure he could elaborate on the subject. This is... not accurate. From here we get a list of colors and their corresponding wavelengths. Let's say we we wanted to go from yellow to green. We'll make our emitted wavelength 572nm and our observed 568nm. That's a very slight difference, but still noticable. z = (568nm - 572nm)/(572nm) = -0.007 From z = v/c, we get that the relative velocity would have to be about 4,690,000 mph. 5,000 mph isn't doing squat. actually, i looked it up and realized my fault. It's KM/Miles per SECOND not HOUR. It's been about 10 years since my college phsyics courses, so naturally my memory of such things can be a bit rusty. However, a new though occurs! As we all know (hopefully), the speed of light is constant only in a vaccum. As it hits new mediums it speeds up and slows down. I'm willing to bet that if we slow time, we also slow the emitted light because its going to take longer to get places. As such, when exiting/entering the medium of the time bubble, it's going to cause the usual refraction. When light moves through different mediums, and as its speed changes, it would actually get refracted similar to light passing through a prism. So thinking about this, i'm actually gonna have to change my vote to a "no" on redshift, and instead flip over to saying that its going to refract light like looking into a crystal. What says everyone? Edit: i wonder what the angle of refraction would be on a time-dilation bubble? I already noted that fact about Index of Refraction in my first post

I had a good discussion with Timemaster about accelerations in SR, which I certainly didn't know before. Good deal. I'm wondering if we ran a time factor of two into SR, would GR return the same values for a predicted redshift? I'm not seeing your logic here. The fact that a photon has properties of particles like momentum does not invalidate Timemaster's argument, because a single photon will still have a particular wavelength. So your argument basically boils down to "since it isn't gravity or velocity, relativity doesn't apply." I'd say, irrelevant of mechanism, if there is some time dilation, there must be a shift in frequency. Well, Brandon has said that it's not a hard boundary. And sheesh, when has "it's magic" stopped us before

Extremely rough edge. We are well aware of it. Bear with us!

I had the same thought. We need to get this down to a science.

Seriously? That's awesome! What other fun facts are you hiding in your brain

Well, ours is the best, of course. We're happy to have you here!

Realize that I hadn't read Way of Kings at this point (...how did I know it was named Skai XD I don't even remember). In interview questions, especially when I can only ask them in proxy, I ask them in a ludicrous way in hopes that I get more information. That was one of those times.

There'd still be a horizon where you would get redshifts.

Nothing of the sort. Popular theory is that it is Aona's, not Skai. At least that's what is going around the General Theories forum.