Chaos
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This is actually the case. I asked Brandon this at Alloy (my report is finally coming this week) and he said that a holder's personality does interpret the Shard's Intent. (Also, I'm editing that instance of "Shardbearer" to be Shardholder, if you don't mind me doing so)
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Moving this one to General Theories, since it is more cosmere related.
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Seems very reasonable and likely to me.
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Specifically, Josh and Mi'chelle (Rubix and firstRainbowRose) on the forums Well, if you ask Mi'ch, she told Brandon that she invented her own character's backstory to be something like this: She's from Nalthis, because she has the apostrophe and double consonants in her name. She became a worldhopper, and then fell in love with Josh, a native of Scadrial. It's kind of funny, because Mi'chelle really is her name, and it's exactly with Nalthis naming conventions. Oh, it's an awesome cameo, but I have a hard time believing that Hoid isn't also up to something else. Considering the fact that he's in, you know, every cosmere book, doing something.
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That's really bizarre. That doesn't happen when I (rarely) paste from OpenOffice.
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Um, you don't know that at all. Hoid meddles a lot, we just don't know his true objectives. He's always doing stuff in the background.
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It's IPB's fault. There are a few formatting things that happen. For example, IPB can't render tabs without you using BBCode. It's a common problem with forums. I second the use of Notepad (or, if you want something much better, use Notepad++. You get basic text editing, but with a tab interface, and a bunch of other useful features). Google Docs works pretty well for me, too. When you were typing in Word, what was the formatting that the forum borked on?
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I'm gonna move this into Entertainment Discussion, if you don't mind me doing so. I... I don't know. TOR has interested me, because I loved Knights of the Old Republic (the second one a little less so). I want to know more, I want to play in that world more. But my brother's played it, and he said the gameplay was fairly conventional. Maybe he changed his mind since then. I should ask him... That said, I simply don't have time to play ten BioWare games to get all the Old Republic story I need. It's as simple as that, really. I think I'll always rather prefer single player games. I'm more excited about Guild Wars 2.
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Well, even with non-canon terms, I'd like to fit in the spirit with canon, so I'd like a one-to-one correspondence with whatever we choose and compound.
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I do not feel that drain mechanically makes as a replacement, in the exact sense that "compound" is used. Replaced with: No, that really doesn't make sense. Drain mechanically makes sense in that it involves "tapping a lot", but the word we are looking for actually deals with Feruchemical energy "loss", and drain doesn't have anything to do with that. If you don't like surge, condense makes most sense given this condition. However, I do feel that condense is a rather lame verb. I do feel that surge does make sense in this context. It's like a river surging to new heights, building on itself, until it destroys something. I don't know, something like a floor. Surge makes sense as a direct replacement for compound in this circumstance, and has the benefit of working with the statement of "Wax surged weight". There is a matter of transitivity which was mentioned before, but dang it, I feel that "Some surged something" means that the something is being surged I'll repeat my arguments for why I think Feruchemical surging is totally different from Surge, with Surgebinding. Firstly, Surge, capital-S, is a noun. We haven't seen too much reference to the Surges, but Brandon has used the word Surge as a noun. Feruchemical surging, on the other hand, is a verb. In our context, you make something surge. In Stormlight, the Surges are powers themselves. It is possible that Surge could be used as a verb in later Stormlight book, but, if you look at the parallel with Surgebinding and Voidbinding, well... you don't "Void" something. They are nouns. In fact, I put down $5 on it to IvoryRoad if it does become a verb. It's possible that I'm wrong. God knows you can find plenty of examples of that. But still. Secondly, you have to wonder if there is any context where surge and Surge would actually get confused. The only case is if a Feruchemist fought a Surgebinder. I'm pretty sure we're all intelligent enough to keep the two meanings of the word separate on two separate worlds, just like we can easily distinguish between Shardbearer and Shardholder (another noncanonical, fan agreed upon convention). Even if Surge suddenly became a verb, I don't think there would exist an ambiguity. Let's say I'm writing the best fan fiction there ever was, involving Wax and Jasnah's epic romance. A huge, sweeping love story across worlds! Well, it turned out to not go so well, and Jasnah and Wax end up fighting. This is the only situation where the verbs even have the potential to get confused, right? Well, when I'm writing in Jasnah's POV, you know what? Turns out there are awesome verbs already. Jasnah doesn't Surge anything; she Soulcasts. If Szeth fought Wax, then Szeth Lashes stuff, not Surges stuff. So, my challenge to anyone who is worried about a Stormlight-Mistborn ambiguity with surge would be to come up with a sentence where you'd actually get the two terms mixed up. None has been suggested so far. I think if you have any objection to surge, a more reasonable argument against is to discuss the verb's intransitivity, and that when I say "Wax surged weight", I'm making it transitive. (Nyah.) That's a much more cogent argument than worrying about an ambiguity that might exist in Stormlight, but an ambiguity that we can't even think of a case where it'd be confusing. I personally feel that surge makes sense in the most contexts, fits with the magical mechanism in question, and is the most evocative term on the list.
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Sure. People ignore the 17th Shard/Seventeenth Shard convention all the time (the former referring to the site, the latter referring to the in-world organization). Not a big deal. And in this case, you're exactly right: it's more important which word we aren't using. Okay, I'll add it into the poll. No worries.
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And I really do understand your point. I agree that tap works just fine. However, there is an ambiguity with "compound", and that can get confusing for new members who are just beginning to theorize, you know? So it's less that I want to force people to use this verb (because tap can work well in most circumstances), but I just want something that isn't compound. The ambiguity is a problem.
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Hey, everyone is welcome to campaign for their favorite verb, so I thought I'd get that started
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The poll has been posted. And I successfully resisted the urge to write "surge" first!
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As discussed here and here, we're trying to come up for a verb where you tap a great deal of a Feruchemical attribute. You may be wondering why we're even doing this. It's for this reason: That's a quote from Alloy of Law. See, the attribute's power "compounds" upon itself, meaning you get diminishing returns. However, we believe that if we use the word "compound" to refer to this phenomena, that will get confused with Compounding, the Allomancy-Feruchemy trick. For at least this site, it would be nice to get rid of such an ambiguity. This poll is to give you some say in which verb you feel works the best. Extensive arguments in favor of each word can be found here, and please, please read through that. You may be swayed one way or another due to people's arguments. Personally, I believe that whichever verb is selected must be evocative in a magical sense, be a fair substitution in that "compounding" quote earlier, functionally make sense with what is actually happening to the Feruchemical attribute, and preferably, sound cool. You may have different criteria, however. Some example sentences uses each term: Wax surged weight. Wax overtapped weight. Wax funneled weight. Wax condensed weight. Wax flooded weight. It's something that would fit with "Wax [blank] a week's worth of weight in a single moment, shattering the floor." If you have additional verbs, I can add them to the poll. Happyman made a salient point in the Feruchemical Flaring thread whether we, in fact, need a new term at all. "Tap", after all, fits in that example sentence. And I agree with happyman; you're more than welcome to use "tap" with a modifier to denote that you're tapping a great deal. However, I'd like to dissuade people from using "compound" to describe this effect, so I would like an effective substitution for that, when theorizing or something requires it. Happy voting. (Also, surge ftw.) EDIT: Hey, when do you guys want the voting to end?
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I'll go ahead and make a poll. Give me a few minutes. Though, I agree with Kurkistan: people should read through the arguments here.
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Gorgeous. -
@Plediades - Pick the ones you like! I may PM you if I think of something particularly good though.
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That's an awesome question. Thanks for reporting it! Did you remember your questions that you posted on Ado? They could, perhaps, have been revealed elsewhere. Adonalsium died this summer. The old administrator had a death in the family, and so they got a new admin, who tried a revitalization effort (from what I understand, it was getting quite inactive). However, that fell through when something happened to the new admin. No one stepped up to the plate there, so I think that's why it ended.
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Good point. I actually found that issue more aggravating with "flood" and "funnel", where it seemed very obviously the wrong direction. Surge seemed at least more reasonable as a transitive verb. Cursed grammar! So, if we can come up with a transitive verb that is as good as surge... (That said, I still think "Wax surged weight" should be a perfectly fine grammatical sentence, transitivity be damned.) That one is my favorite. I will never live that down. (Though, in my defense, I sort of had a point. Sort of...)
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No no, I'll totally put money down on this. If it does, I'll totally PayPal you five bucks, or something. Plenty for a cookie. Surge very well could be turned into a verb, but I'm confident Plus, if you're right, you get even more ammunition to make fun of me, which there's plenty of already. Though, I disagree that overtap is more specifically useful. For example, in context that Kurkistan posted: We could not use "overtap" to replace compound in this instance, which is exactly what we're trying to do, right? "Surging upon itself" does make grammatical and visceral sense, in my opinion. Hence we clear up the ambiguity with compound, and yet still fits the spirit of the canonical material, without even changing the sentence. Overtap is more clunky in this case, you have to admit, and if there's another verb in this thread which does fit as well (or better) than surge, I'm not seeing it. Which is why I'm pushing surge so hard. So in this model, it would be 17th Shard standard to either: 1. Use tap, with modifiers to indicate that the rate is higher than normal, as happyman suggests. That's of course fine. 2. Use surge if lazy. But don't use "compound". I like this paradigm, personally.
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Hey Sharders! This week’s delayed Around the Cosmere is brought to you by a lot of Dr Pepper and sleep deprivation. Isn’t finals week delightful? Anyway, there’s lots of cool stuff, so let’s get started! Weekly Updates There’s a new chapter of Mythwalker--chapter sixteen--that just went up. The new episode of Writing Excuses deals with how Brandon, Dan, Mary, and Howard construct settings, and give a few away. Very fascinating. Most importantly for those in the Utah area, there are two signings next week. The first is in West Jordan, on December 15th, and the second is in Orem, on December 17th. If you go, might you take a look at the (slightly outdated) Ultimate List of Questions for Brandon and ask him something cool? Giveaways and Interviews Our holiday giveaway was a smashing success (though, I suppose it couldn’t be anything except a success, considering we did, in fact, give away stuff) with 462 entrants. Sadly, we couldn’t give away 462 items. But those lucky eight who won should go check their email. I still haven’t heard from two of you. Maybe check your spam folder. And speaking of other international contests, well, if you’re in New Zealand or Australia, you’re in luck: Helen Lowe is giving away two copies of The Alloy of Law for you guys. She also interviews Brandon, though for the cosmere-centric, this one doesn’t contain anything you don’t already know. Seattle Signing Suvudu.com has did a recording of the Seattle Alloy of Law Signing. For one thing, he read from a 20,000 word novella, Legion. Then, there’s a second video of the same signing, where he discusses Legion as well as doing a Q&A. Legion will be released by Subterranean Press, with probably a nicer edition, as well as a cheaper ebook edition for $3. The coolest part of Legion? It was written as pitch for a TV series, and guess what? Lionsgate has picked up rights for it. They haven’t signed the deal yet, but they say that they’ll film a pilot next spring. In the Q&A, there’s some cool stuff about his publishing schedule. After A Memory of Light, there he’ll work on the next Stormlight book--not a big surprise. But in between Stormlight books, he’ll write Alloy sequels. Pretty dang awesome. Brandon plotted them at three or four books. He also reveals who will get flashback books for the first five Stormlight books. And in between the two five book arcs of Stormlight Archive? He’ll write the second Mistborn trilogy. Woot. He talks about the Mistborn video game, which is definitely going through, and he is writing the dialogue and is doing a pass on the story for the game. Sweet. And he doesn’t say in this signing, but we do know that the Mistborn video game will be set 200 years after the Lord Ruler’s Ascension. We have a discussion topic on this Seattle signing over here. Forum Highlights IvoryRoad posted a topic about your favorite moments in the Mistborn series. Ben McSweeney (aka Inkthinker), the wonderful artist who did Shallan’s sketches in the Way of Kings, the Alloy of Law Broadsheet ARC, and the art in the Mistborn Adventure Game, posted some higher-resolution images of the broadsheet, including a prototype. Take a look. Then, for the very OCD fans (aka 99% of us), there’s a topic about what new, non-canonical, but 17th Shard standard term we should use for tapping a lot from your metalminds. The problem revolves around the fact that the word “compounding” is used for both this effect and the stuff Miles did, only one is compounding, and the other is Compounding. Quite confusing, so we’re on a quest to potentially clear up that ambiguity, at least on this site. And boy, many, many terms are discussed. It’s a very heated topic right now. Post and let your preference be heard! Sweet Theories And now for some theories that may be of interest. As usual, this section of Around the Cosmere has some slight spoilers. We have one where perhaps Hoid founded the Worldbringers, and it’s looking like people are coming to a consensus on that matter. Then there’s the major revelation, confirmed by Brandon himself, that there are ten core Shardworlds. Realize that if you count up the known cosmere books, we only know seven of those--and those are just the core worlds. Awesome. Also, there is a Q&A in that topic as well. There’s a theory about the nature of Hoid and his relationship with Adonalsium. Speaking of Hoid, there’s a theory that he has a method of hiding himself to Shards on worlds. Lastly, there’s also additional discussion regarding the people accompanying Galladon in the Way of Kings. One of his compatriots is from a book that hasn’t been published yet, but the other is from a world we’ve seen, and the description in Way of Kings supposedly match his description in that other novel. Get on it, all you Sherlocks. Well that’s it for this installment! See you next week, and ideally on time. -
Yes.
