lukaash Posted November 9, 2021 Posted November 9, 2021 Honor trapped Odium on Braize. How did Honor manage to do this? Did Honor manipulate Odium into breaking a pact, and making Odium weaker? Or did Odium actually agree to get stuck on the planet.
Quantus he/him Posted November 9, 2021 Posted November 9, 2021 We do not know, short answer. The Oathpact was a big part of it, but not the whole thing. It's a plot point that's being revealed slowly, and I suspect we wont get full details until we start seeing Herald POV Flashbacks in the back half. Personally, I think the Oathpact was a way to force Odium to Invest in the planet by trapping the Fused (and anything else he had Invested in) in the Rosharan system, not actually trapping him so much as giving him consequences of Leaving forcefully. He didnt want to be forced to leave a whole bunch of his own Power behind, so he stuck around and started maneuvering to win the war and be released more fully. Quote Questioner So Odium is trapped on a planet near Roshar. Now that Talenelat is no longer being bound wherever he's at, does that mean that Odium's imminence is-- Brandon Sanderson Taln still is keeping to the Oathpact. So there is that. But [Odium's] being bound is greater than the Oathpact. Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015)
+mdross81 he/him Posted November 9, 2021 Posted November 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, lukaash said: Honor trapped Odium on Braize. How did Honor manage to do this? Did Honor manipulate Odium into breaking a pact, and making Odium weaker? Or did Odium actually agree to get stuck on the planet. The short answer is, of course, that we don't yet know. But there are a few references that may shed some light. The Stormfather says that "Odium is sealed by the powers of Honor and Cultivation" (OB 38) As to the means through which Odium is trapped, I think this line from RoW 75 might have some relevance. This is Vaiu, Adolin's guard talking to him about the deadeyes congregating outside Lasting Integrity: Quote "There is a Connection happening," Vaiu said. "Deadeyes cannot think, but they are still spren - bound to the spiritweb of Roshar herself. Presumably it's this bond to Roshar's spiritweb that prevents spren from being able to travel too far away. So it stands to reason that Odium's entrapment may similarly involve him being somehow bonded to Roshar's spirit web. Elsewhere, Rayse talks about the prohibitions Honor placed on him. This is from RoW 112, discussing about what would happen if he broke his word: Quote "Then the contract is void, and I am in you power. Same, but reversed, if you break the contract. You would be in my power, and the restrictions Honor placed on me - chaining me to the Rosharan system and preventing me from using my powers on most individuals - would be void. But that is not going to happen, and I am not going to break my word. Because if I did, it would create a hole in my soul - which would let Cultivation kill me." But that begs the question, why/how was Honor able to place these restrictions on him? It seems possible that Odium was at risk because he violated the Shards' non-interference pact, described here by Edgli in the epigraph to OB 39: Quote No good can come of two Shards settling in one location. It was agreed that we would not interfere with one another, and it disappoints me that so few of the Shards have kept to this original agreement. I mean, splintering another Shard has got to count as "interfering" with it. Although Odium may claim that - at least with respect to Dominion, Devotion, and Honor - he was actually enforcing the non-interference agreement against other Shards who had violated it. Hard to say how he might justify going after Ambition because we just don't know much about their conflict. So maybe he was at risk and Honor/Cultivation threatened him into agreeing to be bound. But I tend to think that Tanavast challenged Rayse to a one-on-one contest for the hearts of men, and that both sides agreed to remain within the system until one side won. But before either side could win, Rayse splintered Honor and killed Tanavast. This idea is based on a couple of different pieces of evidence. One is Rayse's line about Honor imposing prohibitions that prevented Rayse from using his powers on most individuals. I think this is an extension of the Shards' non-interference pact, and that Honor made humans, collectively, his representative, which then afforded them protection (just as Wit gained protection and stopped hiding from Rayse once he became a contractual liaison of Honor). Speaking of Wit, another piece of evidence for this theory is something Wit says a couple of times: that the contest of champions will be about "the hearts of men." More specifically, I think Honor and Odium's conflict has to do with whether Honor still lives in the hearts of men. A third piece of this is how Odium uses the Unmade - to try to push humans into an emotional state where they're susceptible to Odium's influence. See the scene where Odium takes control of Amaram's army in OB 115: Quote The dark spren flew toward the men, finding welcoming bodies and willing flesh. The red mist made them lust, made their minds open. And the spren, then, bonded to the men, slipping into those open souls. "Master, you have learned to inhabit humans?" Turash said to Subservience. "Spren have always been able to bond with them, Turash," Odium said. "It merely requires the right mindset and the right environment." See also, the words of the one Radiant in the Starfalls vision (OB 34): Quote "All who resist are needed," the Radiant said to Fen. "Indeed, any who have a desire to fight should be compelled to come to Alethela. We can teach you, help you. If you have the soul of a warrior, that passion could destroy you, unless you are guided. Come to us." And Brandon, himself has suggested this is how Odium uses the Unmade: Quote zas678 (paraphrased) Can Odium influence people the same way that Ruin can? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Well, you see, the kandra and the koloss have a "hole" in them that allows Ruin to come in and take over. The Parshendi naturally are protected from this, but when they expose themselves to the storms, and the spren come in, many of these spren have that kind of "hole" in them, and that's what allows Odium to take control of them. zas678 (paraphrased) No, I'm talking about how Ruin was able to push people, place things in their minds, stuff like that. Can Odium do the same thing? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Well, Odium wasn't around when those people were created, so it's a little different for him than Ruin. So if he influences people in that way, it's through the Unmade. Orem signing 2014 (Dec. 6, 2014) Put it all together, and I think there's pretty good evidence for a battle for the hearts of men between Odium and Honor. 1
+Oltux72 he/him Posted November 10, 2021 Posted November 10, 2021 14 hours ago, lukaash said: Honor trapped Odium on Braize. How did Honor manage to do this? Did Honor manipulate Odium into breaking a pact, and making Odium weaker? Or did Odium actually agree to get stuck on the planet. (Scadrial) Spoiler Trapping a Shard is apparently not all that hard. Preservation did it to Ruin. It just is highly dangerous to the trapper. 13 hours ago, mdross81 said: I mean, splintering another Shard has got to count as "interfering" with it. Although Odium may claim that - at least with respect to Dominion, Devotion, and Honor - he was actually enforcing the non-interference agreement against other Shards who had violated it. Hard to say how he might justify going after Ambition because we just don't know much about their conflict. For all we know the agreement was to not intrude into one another's star system. Technically Odium did not do that. Ambition was not invested on Threnody, Dominion and Devotion were not alone and neither were Honor and Cultivation. Honor likely would say that he and Cultivation arrived together, hence no intrusion.
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