Theory on Trell

[SirWatermelon]

So, Mistborn era two takes place just after Stormlight 5. I've been thinking that Trell's incursion on Scadrial could have something to do with the events of Stormlight 5, possibly rell is forced out of their shard planet by odium, or is odium. Maybe Honor and Odium are combined to make trell, or Dalinar, being made to lead the voidbringers, goes by trell. I would love to hear your Trell based theories, and any information that could debunk my own.

[Smye]

This seems incredibly unlikely as Sazed speaks of Trell during Mistborn Era 1 (HoA) which takes place prior to Stormlight... I like your thinking, but I don't think it holds water.

 

*edit for typo

Edited September 24, 2021 by Smye
Typo

[Honorless he/him]

Just now, Smye said:

This seems incredibly unlikely as Sazed speaks of Trell during Mistborn Era 1 (HoA) which takes place prior to Stormlight... I like you rthinking, but I don't think it holds water.

The two Trells do not necessarily refer to the same entity.

[SirWatermelon]

1 minute ago, Smye said:

This seems incredibly unlikely as Sazed speaks of Trell during Mistborn Era 1 (HoA) which takes place prior to Stormlight... I like your thinking, but I don't think it holds water.

 

*edit for typo

Yeah, Trell is a person from Taldain and also a religion, I think that if it is another shard they would just be using the name for the reputation, or as a disguise.

[Zoey she/her]

Trell is most likely related to Autonomy, if you put all of the details we have together. 

From Coppermind

Quote

Trell is associated with one of the nine Shards that were known when trellium first appeared.^[9][12] The color red has often been associated with Trell; for example, the red haze Harmony showed Waxillium Ladrian around Scadrial and the red eyes of the Set's Faceless Immortals,^[6][19] but this does not narrow down the list of Shards Trell could be, since red is associated with corrupted Investiture generally, not a specific Shard.^[13][27][28] Trell cannot be Preservation or Ruin, as Harmony did not know the metal;^[1] it is also not Ambition, Invention, Mercy, Valor, or Whimsy, as they were unknown at the time trellium first appeared;^[9] and it has been confirmed to not be Endowment.^[29] It is almost certainly not Devotion, Dominion, or Honor as they are all Splintered,^[30] which leaves Autonomy, Cultivation, and Odium as the remaining possibilities. Cultivation has exhibited few signs of interest in affairs beyond Roshar and it seems unlikely that she was responsible for the metal. Harmony distinctly mentions Odium in his second letter to Hoid but shares that he is worried that a Shard or Shards he cannot identify are encroaching on Scadrial,^[31] suggesting that Trell is not Odium.

By process of elimination, this suggests that Trell is related to Autonomy. Direct evidence for this theory also exists. Notably, Khriss states that Autonomy often intervenes on other worlds^[32] and Autonomy is known to have avatars on First of the Sun and Obrodai;^[33][34] Trell may be an avatar of Autonomy manifesting on Scadrial. There is also a Daysider man named Trell on Taldain,^[35] which strengthens the tie to Autonomy. The fact that Taldain is a tidally locked planet^[32] and that the original Scadrian religion involving Trell, Trelagism, focused on the difference between day and night^[3] may suggest the original religion had roots in Taldain; Autonomy is known to be worshiped in several religions,^[36] so it seems plausible she is involved in Trelagism in some way. The metal trellium allowed Paalm to operate free from Harmony's influence,^[37] a property that seems to align well with Autonomy's intent.

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Zoey

[Shinwarrior]

The fact that there are multiple Trell's mentioned before now leave's me hesitant to say which shard it is. However, because of the metals in the spiked people have never before been seen I say it is a Shard we haven't seen yet. From Sazed's letter to Hoid it gives this impression. He talks about some of the Shards and mentions 

Quote

Whimsy was not terribly useful, and Mercy worries me. I do think that Valor is reasonable, and suggest you approach her again. It has been too long, in her estimation, since your last conversation. The deaths of both Devotion and Dominion trouble me greatly, as I had not realized this immense power we held was something that could be broken in such a way. On my world, the power always gathered and sought a new Vessel. That said, the most worrying thing I discovered in this was the wound upon the Spiritual Realm where Ambition, Mercy, and Odium clashed-and Ambition was destroyed. The effects on the planet Threnody have been … disturbing. Other Shards I cannot identify, and are hidden to me. I fear that their influence encroaches upon my world, yet I am locked into a strange inability because of the opposed powers I hold.

Trell being from Autonomy like Zoey said is a good theory as well. Sazed/Harmony hasn't had any interaction with Autonomy so it still fits what he said in his letter. That being said, I'm still hoping it is a shard we haven't seen yet. 

3 minutes ago, Zoey said:

Trell is most likely related to Autonomy, if you put all of the details we have together. 

 

[Zoey she/her]

4 minutes ago, Shinwarrior said:

The fact that there are multiple Trell's mentioned before now leave's me hesitant to say which shard it is. However, because of the metals in the spiked people have never before been seen I say it is a Shard we haven't seen yet. From Sazed's letter to Hoid it gives this impression. He talks about some of the Shards and mentions 

Trell being from Autonomy like Zoey said is a good theory as well. Sazed/Harmony hasn't had any interaction with Autonomy so it still fits what he said in his letter. That being said, I'm still hoping it is a shard we haven't seen yet. 

 

Well... it might be a corrupted Shard, but we at least know it is associated with a Shard we have seen, and process of elimination suggests Autonomy, along with a lot of other connections. But it is at least gonna have close connections to Autonomy. 

Might actually have some connections with Whimsy, Brandon said Whimsy might be mentioned in The Lost Metal, and that we get to know what Trell is in The Lost Metal. Red Investiture suggests corruption. But Harmony also interacted with Whimsy and had a conversations, as suggested by RoW 25 Epigraph. So doubtful there. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Zoey

[Shinwarrior]

Just now, Zoey said:

Well... it might be a corrupted Shard, but we at least know it is associated with a Shard we have seen, and process of elimination suggests Autonomy, along with a lot of other connections. But it is at least gonna have close connections to Autonomy. 

After rereading(again) what Sazed said could it be multiple shards? I know that doesn't sound very much like Autonomy but what if Trell or Autonomy is with another shard? (Hence the spike that looks like an alloy of Red and Gold.) The Red could be coming from Autonomy and Odium added has the Gold? Sazed says, 

Quote

Other Shards I cannot identify, and are hidden to me. I fear that their influence encroaches upon my world,

Shards plural. And their influence, not it's influence. 

[Use the Falchion]

Just now, Shinwarrior said:

Shards plural. And their influence, not it's influence. 

Not really part of this discussion either way, but the use of their doesn't always mean plural. It's been used to mask identity for mystery of personal reasons for decades if not centuries. It's also the go-to pronoun when talking about those who identify as gender non-binary. From what we know of Autonomy, Bavadin has a complex relationship with gender, idenity, and Avatars, so using "their" when discussion the Shard isn't out of the question. (Also, Bavadin does refer to themself in the third person in the letter to Hoid in Oathbringer IIRC, so there's that.)

[Honorless he/him]

I compiled the points on the possibility of Trell being either Autonomy or Odium a while ago:

That might be helpful for a refresher or perspective

34 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

(Also, Bavadin does refer to themself in the third person in the letter to Hoid in Oathbringer IIRC, so there's that.)

That last part was actually Patji, an Avatar of Autonomy, speaking on behalf of their group... of Autonomies, I guess

[Zoey she/her]

1 hour ago, Shinwarrior said:

After rereading(again) what Sazed said could it be multiple shards? I know that doesn't sound very much like Autonomy but what if Trell or Autonomy is with another shard? (Hence the spike that looks like an alloy of Red and Gold.) The Red could be coming from Autonomy and Odium added has the Gold? Sazed says, 

Shards plural. And their influence, not it's influence. 

Small nitpick, it was red and silver iirc. 

 

[Weltall]

2 hours ago, Shinwarrior said:

Trell being from Autonomy like Zoey said is a good theory as well. Sazed/Harmony hasn't had any interaction with Autonomy so it still fits what he said in his letter. That being said, I'm still hoping it is a shard we haven't seen yet.

It's probably in one of the other linked topics but just to put it here, we have another WoB that makes it clear that the metal, the meddling Shard and Trell all refer to the same entity, which per the other WoB is a Shard we already know.

Quote

Questioner

Is the metal that Bleeder was associated with and had, is the Shard associated with that metal the same entity that's calling itself Trell?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Oathbringer Portland signing (Nov. 16, 2017)

 

[Zoey she/her]

58 minutes ago, Weltall said:

It's probably in one of the other linked topics but just to put it here, we have another WoB that makes it clear that the metal, the meddling Shard and Trell all refer to the same entity, which per the other WoB is a Shard we already know.

 

And knew prior to RoW, so it is not Whimsy, Valor, Invention, or Mercy. 

It wouldn't be Honor, Devotion, or Dominion as they are shattered. 

Not Odium as Sazed knows about Odium, likely not Cultivation as she shows no real interest in expanding beyond her sphere. 

Not Preservation or Ruin for obvious reasons, and it is confirmed to not be Endowment. 

So only leaves Autonomy, who we know to meddle with other planets. And whose intent fits with what the Set are fighting for, freedom from rule, and also fits with how the metal makes one free from Harmony's sight or control. Along with how Trelagism was about the difference between day and night, like how Taldain is Dayside and Nightside, and there is somebody named Trell on Taldain, which does have an intentional,  vague connection as per WoB. 

It all fits together, so my theory, is it is an Avatar of Autonomy that somehow got corrupted by another Shard. That or Autonomy is the corrupter.