Cultivation and Odium Light

[Crylorenzo]

At Chapter 83 in my RoW re-read and Venli was contemplating the love she used to feel and how the tone of Cultivation used to be important to her people. She reflects on how the original listeners had left because they "rejected the conflict. Holding to family, singing to Love despite their dull forms, they'd left the war and gone a new way."

This becomes the exact moment when Cultivation's tone and Odium's tone snap together in Harmony in her mind. The next word is Freedom.

So my question is - what do you think the name for Cultivation and Odium's light together is? The excerpts I mentioned give a few possibilities:

The Rhythm of Freedom - this fits nicely with the theme of the Listeners and it mentioned as a single word right after the experience. But does it reflect a passion for change? Or a change in passion? I feel like this is perhaps missing something, but I think it is the most likely so far.

The Rhythm of Love - Love was capitalized in the excerpt leading up to the harmonizing and it is the part of herself that Venli had previously felt she had lost and was coming back to. This fits both the ideas of a passion for change or a change in passion in my mind. It sounds a little sappy and like Brandon listened for too long to the Plain White T's song, but I could get behind it.

The Rhythm of Peace - But wait you might say, isn't this the Rhythm that the Listeners use all the time to check the time? It is and it is referenced so often that it could very well be one of those hidden in plain sight allusions that Brandon does so well. The Listeners initially rejected conflict - a passion to change and a change in passion from the war that was before. I think this is a stretch, but I still like it.

Any other ideas for the meaning behind the Rhythm of Cultivation and Odium?

As a sidenote - is there a different name other than Towerlight for Honor and Cultivation? Rhythm of the Tower doesn't seem like a great name for a Rhythm to me.

[Honorless]

Freedom seems the most likely, it fits very well narratively and with the characters in question.

I think it can also be associated with defiance

[Zoey]

So  far it is only deemed as Towerlight and thus Rhythm of the Tower, due to the connection of Honor and Cultivation mixing to create the Sibling, and how Sibling basically is the Tower, it is fitting. 

[Honorless]

4 minutes ago, Zoey said:

So  far it is only deemed as Towerlight and thus Rhythm of the Tower, due to the connection of Honor and Cultivation mixing to create the Sibling, and how Sibling basically is the Tower, it is fitting. 

Psst! They're talking about Odium and Cultivation's hybrid Light, not Honor and Cultivation's hybrid Light

[Zoey]

1 minute ago, Honorless said:

Psst! They're talking about Odium and Cultivation's hybrid Light, not Honor and Cultivation's hybrid Light

I was answering the last question they said, which was about Towerlight. My mistake for not being clear.

I feel Love wouldn't be it, it does make sense, but they rejected Odium when singing Love, so it seems to be another Rhythm. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Zoey

[Shinwarrior]

5 hours ago, Crylorenzo said:

So my question is - what do you think the name for Cultivation and Odium's light together is? The excerpts I mentioned give a few possibilities:

The Rhythm of Freedom - this fits nicely with the theme of the Listeners and it mentioned as a single word right after the experience. But does it reflect a passion for change? Or a change in passion? I feel like this is perhaps missing something, but I think it is the most likely so far.

The Rhythm of Love - Love was capitalized in the excerpt leading up to the harmonizing and it is the part of herself that Venli had previously felt she had lost and was coming back to. This fits both the ideas of a passion for change or a change in passion in my mind. It sounds a little sappy and like Brandon listened for too long to the Plain White T's song, but I could get behind it.

The Rhythm of Peace - But wait you might say, isn't this the Rhythm that the Listeners use all the time to check the time? It is and it is referenced so often that it could very well be one of those hidden in plain sight allusions that Brandon does so well. The Listeners initially rejected conflict - a passion to change and a change in passion from the war that was before. I think this is a stretch, but I still like it.

Any other ideas for the meaning behind the Rhythm of Cultivation and Odium?

As a sidenote - is there a different name other than Towerlight for Honor and Cultivation? Rhythm of the Tower doesn't seem like a great name for a Rhythm to me.

I have some guesses about these.

After reading what you said I think there are many different rhythms that would work from 2 or three shards. I'm assuming that all the rhythms come from some mix of the three shards. 

• Rhythm of Abashment^[3]
• Rhythm of Agony^[4]
• Rhythm of Amusement^[5]
• Rhythm of Annoyance^[1]
• Rhythm of Anticipation^[6]
• Rhythm of Anxiety^[1]
• Rhythm of Appreciation^[1]
• Rhythm of Awe^[7]
• Rhythm of Betrayal^[1]
• Rhythm of Conceit^[3]
• Rhythm of Confidence^[8]
• Rhythm of Consideration^[1]
• Rhythm of Consolation^[9]
• Rhythm of Craving^[6]
• Rhythm of Curiosity^[5]
• Rhythm of Derision^[8]
• Rhythm of Destruction^[8]
• Rhythm of Excitement^[5]
• Rhythm of Fury^[8]
• Rhythm of Irritation^[1]
• Rhythm of Joy^[8]
• Rhythm of Longing^[10]
• Rhythm of the Lost^[5]
• Rhythm of Mourning^[5]
• Rhythm of Peace^[8]
• Rhythm of Pleading^[1]
• Rhythm of Praise^[5]
• Rhythm of Remembrance^[1]
• Rhythm of Reprimand^[5]
• Rhythm of Resolve^[5]
• Rhythm of Ridicule^[8]
• Rhythm of Satisfaction^[8]
• Rhythm of Skepticism^[5]
• Rhythm of Spite^[8]
• Rhythm of Subservience^[9]
• Rhythm of Supplication^[1]
• Rhythm of Tension^[8]
• Rhythm of the Terrors^[11]
• Rhythm of Victory^[4]
• Rhythm of Winds^[1]
• Rhythm of Withdrawal^[3]

None of these are rhythms of the pure tones as those are the rhythm of war and the rhythm of the tower (possibly has another name) and the rhythm of Odium and Cultivation (which we can speculate about).  As for as that speculation goes, my guess is that Honor and Cultivation could have a rhythm of infrastructure (or something similar that embodies planning/structure and growth). That might be something similar to the rhythm of the tower. As far as the last pure tone rhythm I've always assumed the worst and thought that together Odium and Cultivation would have their rhythm would be something like Cancer or zealousness (which would reflect a passion for growth). 

[Honorless]

1 hour ago, Zoey said:

I was answering the last question they said, which was about Towerlight. My mistake for not being clear.

Oh, oops, sorry

 

Navani referred to it as science and I think that fits: interpreting Cultivation as nature or progress or growth and Honor as structure.

[Medium]

I see Cultivation and Odium as having a relationship similar to Ruin and Preservation. One provides life, the other provides chaos and death. Combine the two, you get neutrality. Harmony. Freedom.

I really like the Rhythm of Freedom. Love seems it'd be more of a combo of Cultivation and some other positively influenced shard. And Peace seems like something else, I don't know.

Just my brain barf

[Truthwatcher94]

Rhythm of Revolution

I have read this from other topics within the forum that Rhythm of War, a hybrid of Honor’s and Odium’s tones and rhythms, can be best described as something that causes passionate conquest bound by rules and laws. An overzealous faith in one’s particular cause can be dangerous, especially when every nation of Roshar or in any world for that matter have differing beliefs/religions. This Rhythm can be why Roshar has been in a constant state of war and conflict ever since Odium has been Invested and bound to it. 

Meanwhile, the Rhythm of the Tower - evokes the "boundless energy of Cultivation, always growing and changing, and the calm solidity of Honor - organized, structured." (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Lights) I’d like to shorten this as something that promotes controlled growth. Honor’s and Cultivation’s lights and rhythms combined provides this effect to the Tower and consequently to its inhabitants. The effect of breathing in Towerlight, which only Navani can do, is still unknown. Maybe the Radiant can gain a sense of patience, to wait and act at the right time. Unlike Stormlight which persuades the user to move and act and Voidlight that enflames emotions. 

Now for Cultivation’s and Odium’s rhythm and tone combination, growth/change and passion/hatred can result to a lot of things. Currently, only Venli’s experience can be our reference. Here are some quotes from RoW:

“Venli searched for something else. The tone of Cultivation. Odium’s song could suffuse her, fueling her powers and enflaming her emotions, but that tone … that tone had belonged to her people long before he’d arrived. While she searched for it, she listened to her mother’s songs in her mind. Like chains, spiked into the stone so they’d remain strong during storms, they reached backward through time. Through generations.”

“The tone snapped into her mind, Cultivation and Odium mixing into a harmony, and it thrummed through Venli. She opened her eyes as power spread from her through the stones. They began to shake and vibrate to the sound of her rhythm, liquid, forming peaks and valleys in time with the music. The floor, ceiling, and walls before her rippled, and a trail of people formed from the stone. Moving, alive again, as they strode away from pain, and war, and killing.

Excerpt From
Rhythm of War
Sanderson, Brandon

It doesn’t really describe what did she feel upon hearing the harmony of the both tones. So, I made deductions same with the Rhythms of War and of the Tower. It felt like the harmonizing was something needed for her to use Cohesion. 

A chaotic mess of passion on one, and a never-ending progression on the other. Together, an ill-advised modification? Or something that supports a REVOLUTION? But a revolution without need can result to a broken system or people but a passionate or emotional reason behind it can be a catalyst for something better. 

We see this in Venli which, I have just now realized, was what she mostly needed to move forward. Something must change inside her, and something did. Venli stopped thinking of just herself, for once she stopped being selfish and became a Radiant. See, this is a change forced by her circumstances and its a good thing. It led her to Radiance and now she’s ready to start her own revolution for her people and for their freedom. 

Therefore, Rhythm of Revolution is my strong guess. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Truthwatcher94
Trimmed it down to fewer words.

[ElMonoEstupendo]

There's a joke among my colleagues from when we were trying to set the rules for a friendly game: "No-rules conkers is a fistfight in the carpark." 

My candidates for the name of a combined Cultivation & Odium:

• Vendetta
• Armageddon or Chaos
• Rebellion or Riot
• Fistfight in the Carpark

I subscribe to the idea that War and Science are the possible names for the other two combos. Thing is, without Honor involved you don't get structure. "Cultivation" does imply a certain amount of deliberateness or direction, but not rules. Rules are what make a war - not rules between opposing sides, but within a side. If you don't have structure, you don't have an army - just a mob.

Some candidates for cultivated wrath, destructive progression, or what have you, are out by virtue of already existing - Ruin and Calamity (not cosmere, but ruled out anyway) would work, but they're taken. I'd veer towards Tempest or similar for the idea of magnified destruction, but the storms are already a thing and (weirdly, I think) strongly associated with Honor.