Opal Lion Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 Interesting. Plum Rhino. Funny thing is, Dragonfly claims you created a PM group with them, Scorpion, and Heron N1. You then claimed to create PMs N2 and N3. So when did you have the time to use the gem if the gem has to be used at night? 'Cause you know, if it's down to you and Dragonfly...
Plum Rhinoceros Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Opal Lion said: Interesting. Plum Rhino. Funny thing is, Dragonfly claims you created a PM group with them, Scorpion, and Heron N1. You then claimed to create PMs N2 and N3. So when did you have the time to use the gem if the gem has to be used at night? 'Cause you know, if it's down to you and Dragonfly... My actions: D1: Take a Warform Gem N1: Use Warform Gem D2: Make PM between me, Dragonfly, Scorpion, Heron N2: Make PM between me, Dingo D3: Take [REDACTED] Gem N3: Make PM between me, Dingo, Falcon, Flamingo I made the PM D2, Dragonfly is misremembering. I doubt they're lying on purpose because of Heron and Scorpion as well- if they're all elims, once I flip village that's a wee bit incriminating. The timestamp for my creation of said PM is 7/22/21 at 9:56 AM, or about an hour after D2 started. I took a gemstone D3 to save me an action if I got attacked. I'll be using the gem tonight. Or maybe I won't because I really don't know why I took that one. Edited July 28, 2021 by Plum Rhinoceros
Mint Heron Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Opal Lion said: Interesting. Plum Rhino. Funny thing is, Dragonfly claims you created a PM group with them, Scorpion, and Heron N1. You then claimed to create PMs N2 and N3. So when did you have the time to use the gem if the gem has to be used at night? 'Cause you know, if it's down to you and Dragonfly... [OOC: For what it's worth, that PM was actually created on D2, not N1. As far as I am aware, Rhino was free to put in a form request action N1. I do think I am more likely to accept Rhino as village for now. The villagers were far more likely to gain warform gems than the elims were, and I highly doubt that the elims would attempt a WGG on one of their own, especially someone who was already getting suspected. The one possibility for it actually being a WGG is if they had planned this earlier in N3, and whoever had submitted the kill wasn't on to see the suspicion of Rhino grow. But I don't find that likely. Mostly because the elims wasting an extra life just seems strange to me.]
Ivory Dragonfly Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 17 minutes ago, Opal Lion said: Funny thing is, Dragonfly claims you created a PM group with them, Scorpion, and Heron N1. I did tell you that, but actually looking at the PM, Rhino is right that it opened at what would be 12:56 EST D2.
Opal Lion Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Ivory Dragonfly said: I did tell you that, but actually looking at the PM, Rhino is right that it opened at what would be 12:56 EST D2. 13 minutes ago, Mint Heron said: [OOC: For what it's worth, that PM was actually created on D2, not N1. 15 minutes ago, Plum Rhinoceros said: I made the PM D2, Dragonfly is misremembering. I doubt they're lying on purpose because of Heron and Scorpion as well- if they're all elims, once I flip village that's a wee bit incriminating. Cheers, I'll let the vote sit where it is for a while though. Would like to hear from Scorpion and everyone I've helpfully tagged last Night with questions. Also Beagle! Tuatara! Where my people who promised to say more at? Edited July 28, 2021 by Opal Lion justification
Plum Rhinoceros Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Opal Lion said: Cheers, I'll let the vote sit where it is for a while though. Would like to hear from Scorpion and everyone I've helpfully tagged last Night with questions. Also Beagle! Tuatara! Where my people who promised to say more at? You honestly think I was a WGG? Like, I know you like your shuffle-squat but seriously Edit: @Steeldancer, Edith is female(n) Edited July 28, 2021 by Plum Rhinoceros
Opal Lion Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 Just now, Plum Rhinoceros said: You honestly think I was a WGG? Like, I know you like your shuffle-squat but seriously I feel that if I were an Elim, the strategic implications of trying to kill you would be nil, given the number of people who suggested suspicions of you, and given the fact you would've fallen into the warform gang just by being a regular voter. There's nothing to be gained from killing you, and some amount to be risked. I would have expected a Dragonfly kill, honestly. My suspicions of you were also largely centred around your voting patterns, and unlike Heron, I feel that the number of ostensible or known Villagers among those known to have failed to have gotten a gem D1 makes me less confident about baptising those who have successfully gotten a gem D1 as Villagers. I'm very happy to be wrong; it'd probably be a better scenario, really. It would also point at a different Elim team profile. But we're barely an hour into the cycle, and my vote's hardly going to kill you yet; you can live with it a while longer and shuffle squat with me 23 minutes ago, Plum Rhinoceros said: My actions: D1: Take a Warform Gem N1: Use Warform Gem D2: Make PM between me, Dragonfly, Scorpion, Heron N2: Make PM between me, Dingo D3: Take [REDACTED] Gem N3: Make PM between me, Dingo, Falcon, Flamingo I like this, and this makes me happier with you. In fact, since I was never really going to provide cover for warform/scholarform/mediationform anyway, let's go: My actions: D1: Attempt and fail to take a warform gem. N1: Create PM between me, Rhino, Ross, and Vulture D2: Take an artform gem N2: Use artform gem D3: Create PM between me and Dragonfly. N3: MAKE BEAUTIFUL ART.
Plum Rhinoceros Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Opal Lion said: I feel that if I were an Elim, the strategic implications of trying to kill you would be nil, given the number of people who suggested suspicions of you, and given the fact you would've fallen into the warform gang just by being a regular voter. There's nothing to be gained from killing you, and some amount to be risked. I would have expected a Dragonfly kill, honestly. My suspicions of you were also largely centred around your voting patterns, and unlike Heron, I feel that the number of ostensible or known Villagers among those known to have failed to have gotten a gem D1 makes me less confident about baptising those who have successfully gotten a gem D1 as Villagers. I'm very happy to be wrong; it'd probably be a better scenario, really. It would also point at a different Elim team profile. But we're barely an hour into the cycle, and my vote's hardly going to kill you yet; you can live with it a while longer and shuffle squat with me I'm aware of this, and I'm confused at this- it's why I spent rollover trying to figure it out, and why I dedicated my first post to spitting out my conclusions. I legitimately don't know why I was targeted; my guess would be faking a WGG except for I still don't think there's any way the elims could have known my role. I too expected a Dragonfly kill. My voting patterns are admittedly bad, and I'm hoping to correct that. I'm curious who the third Warform gem went to, but we'll just have to wait to figure that out. It does point to a specific elim team profile, and since I know I'm village I know that I was simply attacked. I also know I don't have the brain capacity to try to decipher that team profile so I literally am asking you to do it for me For my sake and for I suppose the game's stake, humor me and take a stab at it? If you're fine with that, that is. And again fair, yeah it's only a bit into the cycle. And I still am sticking with my village read of you, no shuffle squat for me, it's quite refreshing I do want to figure out that Art though Edited July 28, 2021 by Plum Rhinoceros
Opal Lion Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Plum Rhinoceros said: my guess would be faking a WGG except for I still don't think there's any way the elims could have known my role. So working on the assumption you're Village, I think they could be prioritising taking out scholarforms. The warform and scholarform list is unfortunately very short, due to Village being allergic to posting and voting, apparently. I alluded to it last cycle when I said I knew of five out of the seven who didn't use gems N1 - that was on the mistaken read of Dragonfly's statement about her PM with you. But I do know four of the seven who didn't use gems N1, and one reason I was so adamant about people creating cover is that the fourth player created a PM with me which means I am dead certain - and they did claim to me - that they didn't successfully get a N1 gem. Unfortunately, this also helps me carve down the warform and scholarform lists further. Suppose the Elims have access to some pieces of info that allow them to cull the list further. Well, my hypothesis for the Dragonfly kill last cycle was precisely that - it's a stab in the dark meant to try to take out scholarforms. This would be especially true given the ability of scholarforms to create more mediationform or more warform, which can empower the Village a little more. I feel, defeasibly, with oh - maybe 0.6 credence, 0.7 max - that the fact they attacked Village!Rhino instead of going for a confirmed kill of a high-certainty Villager, well, several possibilities right? You're not Village!Rhino, just Bad Boi Rhino Dragonfly is Bad Killer Dragonfly They did a check, realised you were on the scholarform list, and decided to take a whack. Vulture is Bad Boi Vulture ...I'm Bad Boi Lion? Not my style though Cards on the table: the scholarform shortlist is really short, and again, I'm surprised they didn't just figure they'd get you mislynched, but it's possible they felt one or two other players who also meet the scholarform requirements were easier mislynch targets. For that matter, given Vulture claimed scholarform and he definitely meets the requirements, I'm surprised they didn't go for him, but maybe they were worried he was trying to bait a kill. I'm considering whether to just spell out the shortlists at this point, honestly. Part of me says - no, don't help the Elims, the other part points out that Elims aren't fools and the information is readily available in the thread so it's not like I'm not saying anything that's not already known. 8 minutes ago, Plum Rhinoceros said: It does point to a specific elim team profile, and since I know I'm village I know that I was simply attacked. I also know I don't have the brain capacity to try to decipher that team profile so I literally am asking you to do it for me For my sake and for I suppose the game's stake, humor me and take a stab at it? If you're fine with that, that is. Sorry bro all I can tell you is it's not my Elim profile and I'm flummoxed by it too More seriously - again, my best hypothesis taking as an assumption you are Village is they seem to be trying for targeted role killing. As Vulture pointed out a few cycles ago, his preferred Elim play is control kill. I actually share that preference. Failing control kill, there's going for confirmed kills. This doesn't seem to be going on here - Dragonfly would've been a good control kill and confirmed kill (because she has already expended her passive life.) Alternatively, Weasel or Falcon could be good confirmed kills - low-info as well in Weasel's case. By confirmed kills, I mean that since there are no Lurchers in this game, all the Elim team has to do is to avoid possible Thugs to guarantee a kill. Because so few players have been voting regularly, it's easy to rule out and avoid the warforms. For instance, I'm a good confirmed kill as well, since it was known from D2 I didn't succeed in getting warform. N1 did look like a standard low-info kill to me but I honestly feel that there are only two ways to read their current targeting profile: Targeted, role kill: cf. scholarform candidates, or: Gambitry central. I feel it's not really the right time or place for a gambit, but at the same time, I'm notoriously anti-gambit so maybe it's a blindspot that I don't think the way this team apparently seems to want to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 8 minutes ago, Plum Rhinoceros said: I do want to figure out that Art though
Steeldancer he/him Posted July 28, 2021 Author Posted July 28, 2021 49 minutes ago, Plum Rhinoceros said: You honestly think I was a WGG? Like, I know you like your shuffle-squat but seriously Edit: @Steeldancer, Edith is female(n)
Opal Lion Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) Missing gems, based off current stash status: Quote 1 nimbleform 5 workform 2 mateform 0 artform Y'all don't like art Y'all make me sad. Could be interesting if two players planned on going/grabbing mateform to get a perma-PM, potentially complicated by Falcon not having a partner. 5 workform gems were taken. Is everyone in this place suddenly bloody terrified of getting voted on or something? Edited July 28, 2021 by Opal Lion spacing and justification
Plum Rhinoceros Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 18 minutes ago, Opal Lion said: Cards on the table: the scholarform shortlist is really short, and again, I'm surprised they didn't just figure they'd get you mislynched, but it's possible they felt one or two other players who also meet the scholarform requirements were easier mislynch targets. For that matter, given Vulture claimed scholarform and he definitely meets the requirements, I'm surprised they didn't go for him, but maybe they were worried he was trying to bait a kill. I guess that makes sense. I think Vulture claimed he had a scholarform friend, not that he himself was scholarform.
Opal Lion Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 Just now, Plum Rhinoceros said: I guess that makes sense. I think Vulture claimed he had a scholarform friend, not that he himself was scholarform. Be honest, I'm so used to reading that as shorthand for "it's actually me TBH but I don't want to say." Given the amount of uncertainty surrounding Vulture, at least from various players, would a scholarform dare to claim? How would this be verified? Everyone and their dog in AG7 kept saying "It's not me but I know a Shard..." when it turned out to be them It's not the most convincing cover story. But also: Ahem. 20 hours ago, Amber Vulture said: they're acting sus in the elim doc, huh :P. I've already mentioned the PM I got N1. I got a Scholarform Gem D1. Where's my scholar buddy at, send me a PM and add someone trustworthy in it as a witness and maybe we can chat and confirm our identities to each other? :eyes:
Amber Vulture Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Plum Rhinoceros said: I took a gemstone D3 to save me an action if I got attacked. I'll be using the gem tonight. Huh. Smart move. I didn't realize you could do that. Alternatively, that reads as an elim who knew their Warform was about to be WGGed. Either or. Rhino voting for Penguin but reminding people that they planned to move the vote later seems suspicious to me. Distancing from results of a known village flip/preparing to move the vote strategically if a teammate got suspected kinda deal. I also feel like they ran out of people they could reasonably sus that weren't their teammates. Why'd they go for Flamingo over say Heron, Beagle, or Scorpion. Although to be honest it could totally just be them being more engaged in thread and sensing something I missed. Eh. Might as well swing for the fences. Plum Rhino * I took a Scholarform Gem. I'd like to find my Scholarform Friend (the other scholar), because I can confirm their identity and vice versa. Although without knowing the odds, it might not be as village indicative as I first thought. By the way, I made a PM last night. Who else made a PM? Edit: oh dear it's bold still. It was a weird kill. Aren't we supposed to check for body snatchers after those Edited July 28, 2021 by Amber Vulture
Plum Rhinoceros Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Opal Lion said: :eyes: Ah. Of course my brain took that as "I got passed a gem by someone in Scholarform D1" (Just... completely ignoring that this wouldn't even be possible to do before, what, D2? N2? >>) "Where's the scholar buddy who passed me that gem?" :P. Whoops yeah. Edit: Seriously @Amber Vulture no it doesn't Village me knows that if I get attacked I want to have a backup I also know that if I get targeted with Decayform I want not my Warform gem to be disintegrated- I don't know if it works for used gems but I didn't want to take chances. So I take another gem. If I were elim I wouldn't have claimed that I took another gem, I would have made up a PM or something idk but I wouldn't bring that up. My votes were bad, yeah, but I went for Flamingo over those three because I trust two of them and Flamingo posted more than Beagle so I had more to go off of them. You can't compare all of those people anyway, there's not a thread that ties them together. Might as well throw every other player into that pool as well, making the statement invalid because that's what voting is. I made a PM last night. Edited July 28, 2021 by Plum Rhinoceros
Opal Lion Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said: Edit: oh dear it's bold still. It was a weird kill. Aren't we supposed to check for body snatchers after those Same problem man. If a warform is killed by Mavset-im's special kill, we see a dead warform because it's an unblockable kill. No dead warform = no bodysnatch happened. In fact, this presents Mavset-im with a problem because the warform shortlist is so small. Either Mavset-im has been softing warform, or Mavset-im is in a bit of a pickle, because the moment we see someone who hasn't been voting and therefore shouldn't be a warform drop instantly dead and it says warform, we know something is wrong. Storms, as soon as a warform drops dead, we do know something is wrong if there hasn't been a prior kill or mislynch. Then we know one of the warforms is compromised.
Amber Vulture Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, Plum Rhinoceros said: Ah. Of course my brain took that as "I got passed a gem by someone in Scholarform D1" (Just... completely ignoring that this wouldn't even be possible to do before, what, D2? N2? >>) "Where's the scholar buddy who passed me that gem?" :P. Whoops yeah. Edit: Seriously @Amber Vulture no it doesn't Village me knows that if I get attacked I want to have a backup I also know that if I get targeted with Decayform I want not my Warform gem to be disintegrated- I don't know if it works for used gems but I didn't want to take chances. So I take another gem. If I were elim I wouldn't have claimed that I took another gem, I would have made up a PM or something idk but I wouldn't bring that up. My votes were bad, yeah, but I went for Flamingo over those three because I trust two of them and Flamingo posted more than Beagle so I had more to go off of them. You can't compare all of those people anyway, there's not a thread that ties them together. Might as well throw every other player into that pool as well, making the statement invalid because that's what voting is. I made a PM last night. Just for the record, if you end up being a villager who took the time to read the rules properly and come up with that strat without prior knowledge of your NK, I'm legitimately impressed. Which is why I didn't sus it too much. 11 minutes ago, Opal Lion said: Same problem man. If a warform is killed by Mavset-im's special kill, we see a dead warform because it's an unblockable kill. No dead warform = no bodysnatch happened. In fact, this presents Mavset-im with a problem because the warform shortlist is so small. Either Mavset-im has been softing warform, or Mavset-im is in a bit of a pickle, because the moment we see someone who hasn't been voting and therefore shouldn't be a warform drop instantly dead and it says warform, we know something is wrong. Storms, as soon as a warform drops dead, we do know something is wrong if there hasn't been a prior kill or mislynch. Then we know one of the warforms is compromised. Gotcha. No kill =no body hop
Azure Mouse Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 Hmm. Is this a WGG? Warform protects against the exe as well as the kill. Assuming e!Rhino, wouldn't it make more sense to not do a WGG? That way you get to take a shot at a different villager and you leave your teammate one life up. If the village exes e!Rhino, you have about as good a chance that the suspicions will be allayed as by using a WGG. They might not be great chances, but by avoiding the WGG you get an extra shot and the village wastes a exe. And, on the off chance that Rhino isn't exed, you get the best of both worlds. I will instead vote for Tuatara. Their post on D1 doesn't read like a player not understanding the rules; it reads like someone deliberately giving bad advice, potentially in order to confuse the village.
Amber Vulture Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 39 minutes ago, Azure Mouse said: Hmm. Is this a WGG? Warform protects against the exe as well as the kill. Assuming e!Rhino, wouldn't it make more sense to not do a WGG? That way you get to take a shot at a different villager and you leave your teammate one life up. If the village exes e!Rhino, you have about as good a chance that the suspicions will be allayed as by using a WGG. They might not be great chances, but by avoiding the WGG you get an extra shot and the village wastes a exe. And, on the off chance that Rhino isn't exed, you get the best of both worlds. I will instead vote for Tuatara. Their post on D1 doesn't read like a player not understanding the rules; it reads like someone deliberately giving bad advice, potentially in order to confuse the village. Oo interesting. Currently it's 9v:5e. If they'd killed a villager last night it'd be 8v;5e. That's not guaranteed, but there were viable targets if they were paying attention. With a hammer, it's 7v;5e then 6v;5e with the kill. You'd need another hammer, but it's doable for the win with the village being more prone to inactivity. Alternatively, kill a villager, fail to exe Rhino, then NK another villager brings you to 7v;5e. Assuming Rhino is then killed, it becomes 7v;4e. NK brings it to 6v;4e. But then if the elims are connected, they might fall like dominos. It's an interesting objection. Hm. It is a common elim strategy to avoid any elim flips to avoid giving the village any leads. Could be a case of that. 52 minutes ago, Azure Mouse said: I will instead vote for Tuatara. Their post on D1 doesn't read like a player not understanding the rules; it reads like someone deliberately giving bad advice, potentially in order to confuse the village. I'd be more suspicious of a current player falling back on that discussion, but since you're new, I guess you didn't get to say that the first time around.
Plum Rhinoceros Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Amber Vulture said: Just for the record, if you end up being a villager who took the time to read the rules properly and come up with that strat without prior knowledge of your NK, I'm legitimately impressed. Which is why I didn't sus it too much. I'll take that as a compliment 1 hour ago, Azure Mouse said: Hmm. Is this a WGG? Warform protects against the exe as well as the kill. Assuming e!Rhino, wouldn't it make more sense to not do a WGG? That way you get to take a shot at a different villager and you leave your teammate one life up. If the village exes e!Rhino, you have about as good a chance that the suspicions will be allayed as by using a WGG. They might not be great chances, but by avoiding the WGG you get an extra shot and the village wastes a exe. And, on the off chance that Rhino isn't exed, you get the best of both worlds. Thank you, Mouse, for articulating what I didn't think to 10 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said: It's an interesting objection. Hm. It is a common elim strategy to avoid any elim flips to avoid giving the village any leads. Could be a case of that. I think you're trying too hard to make me be elim Just accept that a WGG doesn't make sense in this scenario. Er, that's assuming this sentence I quoted is working around Mouse's point. I can't actually tell. I'll do a reread and then post an updated reads list, I actually will, I promise
Cream Tuatara Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 Having looked a little more in-depth, I have to say that a WGG is pretty extreme tinfoil, even for me. But that raises the point, why would they attack Rhino, for those who know these things and aren't too lazy to go back and check, was Rhino a scholar candidate?
Plum Rhinoceros Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Cream Tuatara said: Having looked a little more in-depth, I have to say that a WGG is pretty extreme tinfoil, even for me. But that raises the point, why would they attack Rhino, for those who know these things and aren't too lazy to go back and check, was Rhino a scholar candidate? All these things have been discussed- short answer being we all have literally no idea why I was attacked, and Lion's theory (outside of a WGG :P) is indeed that I was a Scholarform candidate. Maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot by saying this, but even that doesn't make sense seeing as Vulture claimed Scholarform, but then again maybe the elims missed it in the way that I did. Reads post forthcoming.
Steeldancer he/him Posted July 28, 2021 Author Posted July 28, 2021 Quick little rules clarification. While the rules don't say this, I'm ruling that PMs you create do have to include yourself.
Amethyst Scorpion Posted July 29, 2021 Posted July 29, 2021 10 hours ago, Opal Lion said: Amethyst Scorpion [ @Amethyst Scorpion ] -Could be busy, and I accept they mentioned that, but I still find their vote on Dragonfly a convenient place to avoid having to commit to the Penguin and Ross bad trains, especially given the threat of a tie and volatility, given Heron stacked a vote on after that. Would be interested in their read of Weasel as well. If you agreed with Ross's reasoning on ties, it's interesting you don't feel more interested in Ross's survival, or condemning those who broke it, rather than just Dragonfly. Opal, I accept that my vote seems odd, but it truly was as I said, I was busy and didn't fully contemplate the options. You can see I was and am busy from the fact I missed posting last night cycle completely (I'll try to avoid that happening again, but no promises). My read of Weasel is moderately village right now, simply because they went for Mateform (I guess that's been solidly outed, so I don't have to hint anymore), and I would have suspected an Elim would have gone for a more useful form, but I may be misguessing at the Elim tactics. My reasoning agreeing with Ross's on ties doesn't mean I think Ross is village, since Elims can and often do propose good plans for the village to get trusted. Not saying I necessarily think that's what's happening, just that it doesn't have to align. I don't have a good read on them. I also don't have a solid read on Penguin. I plan to come back in about an hour or two and read through more and try to come up with a solid vote with some reasoning behind it for this cycle, so there's that. I don't know if I'll get any more RP in or not, though I'll probably try to. There's not a lot to RP in my mind right now, though now that I'm outed as Mateform I can work that in.
Onyx Flamingo Posted July 29, 2021 Posted July 29, 2021 10 hours ago, Opal Lion said: Probably the player in this category nearest to null for me: either has low vote diversity (not usually a good sign), or one hell of a tunnel on Penguin. I think my view here boils down to: "Be nice to hear more." I'd like to hear why they swapped from Dingo to Penguin D2, openly acknowledging they were risking a tie while endorsing the view that a no lynch isn't good. I answered this last turn. I moved to penguin, despite the possibility of a tie, because I didn't feel that Albatross was a good exe. While my suspicion of Penguin was thin, it was more solid than any feelings about Albatross. As for why I stuck with them, it seemed odd they kept surviving. I was watching and looking through myself to see if I could find a better candidate, but that never happened. As I said, I think I need to take a step back and reevaluate everything. Regarding Rhino, a WGG doesn't feel quite right. They may have been under some suspicion, but not enough to really justify wasting a life. Not when the exes so far have been lackluster. Besides, I've had a village lite read on them for a while. I'm going to review a bit more before I vote.
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