Hoid hurting Kelsier

[i’m in the details]

Surprisingly not about Dawnshards!! I had a pet theory a few moments ago that the reason Hoid can hurt kel in secret history is not because kel is a cognitive shadow because hoid is sure to have seen cs before. But rather because kelsier was currently being preserved by the well. Hoid could punch him all he wanted because nothing he could do would ever actually harm Kel while he was a cognitive shadow being fueled by the well of Preservation. 
 

I believe there is a wob that states the location was important for that interaction but I cannot find it. 

[dannnex male]

Seems plausible, but I like the Dawnshard explanation myself. 

I tried finding that WoB you mentioned. Didn't find it, but I did find this tangentially related one that is pretty interesting, 

Quote

tututitlookslikerain

and the reason he (even still) cannot physically harm people

This point still confuses me. He quite handily puts Kelsier on his rear in The Well.

So he can harm someone if he's provoked? Or is it because he knows that regardless of what he does to Kelsier it won't actually harm him?

And a lot of "harm" is in the mind. Even without a corporeal body, it would still register as pain, thus harm?

And wouldn't it still be considered physical harm, if Hoid was there physically? Applying physical harm?

Brandon Sanderson

If you re-read that scene, Hoid himself is shocked he's able to do what he does there. Let's just say he himself doesn't quite understand the issue as much as he once assumed.

ice_royale

Can we assume he cannot harm a LIVING being, but Kelsier is at that point not a living being?

Brandon Sanderson

This is the conclusion Hoid came to, so it's a pretty solid assumption.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 9, 2020)

Why would Hoid come to that conclusion?? Unless he genuinely has never tried to attack a cognitive shadow before??? That kinda hurts both the Dawnshard theories and this theory, 

 

Oh hey I found the one you wanted.

Quote

Questioner

Hoid's ability to hurt Kelsier, is that due to his perceptions and beliefs or those of an external entity?

Brandon Sanderson

It's going to be a bit of both but more his perceptions and beliefs. This is how a lot of things work in the Cosmere, particularly if you're where they were.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

That sounds to me like Brandon is just referring to the Cognitive Realm as a whole, considering that the question was talking about perception. 

[i’m in the details]

17 minutes ago, Dannex said:

Seems plausible, but I like the Dawnshard explanation myself. 

I tried finding that WoB you mentioned. Didn't find it, but I did find this tangentially related one that is pretty interesting, 

Why would Hoid come to that conclusion?? Unless he genuinely has never tried to attack a cognitive shadow before??? That kinda hurts both the Dawnshard theories and this theory, 

 

Oh hey I found the one you wanted.

That sounds to me like Brandon is just referring to the Cognitive Realm as a whole, considering that the question was talking about perception. 

Gracias and yes you’re probably right about the cognitive realm thing, but I just feel like hoid would have experimented with whether he could harm cognitive shadows in his many years 

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

2 hours ago, Dannex said:

Seems plausible, but I like the Dawnshard explanation myself. 

I tried finding that WoB you mentioned. Didn't find it, but I did find this tangentially related one that is pretty interesting, 

Why would Hoid come to that conclusion?? Unless he genuinely has never tried to attack a cognitive shadow before??? That kinda hurts both the Dawnshard theories and this theory, 

 

Oh hey I found the one you wanted.

That sounds to me like Brandon is just referring to the Cognitive Realm as a whole, considering that the question was talking about perception. 

I think it may also be due to Kelsier lacking a body. The other shadows have had them.

[Honorless he/him]

So it seems likely that Hoid can hurt Cognitive Shadows in the Cognitive Realm?

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

Wait, so could Hoid slap a spren then?

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Wait, so could Hoid slap a spren then?

 hahaha

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

23 hours ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

 hahaha

I think we know there's one he would like to slap more than others.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

4 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I think we know there's one he would like to slap more than others.

 lemme guess........ It's...

Spoiler

Design

. or is it?

Edited April 21, 2021 by Thaidakar the Ghostblood

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

Just now, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

 lemme guess........ it's [redacted]. or is it?

we're not in the RoW spoiler zone, perhaps cover that. we technically don't get the spren's name until RoW.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Halyo_Alex
spoiler protection

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

3 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

we're not in the RoW spoiler zone, perhaps cover that. we technically don't get the spren's name until RoW.

oh  ah well, but was it 

Spoiler

Design?

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Thaidakar the Ghostblood

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

Just now, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

oh  ah well, but was it? 

...yeah

Edited April 21, 2021 by Halyo_Alex

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

Just now, Halyo_Alex said:

...yeah

I knew it!