Shallan’s truth (spoiler)

[88stew88]

So Shallan’s big reveal this book was that she had abandoned her oath and killed her first spren.  I didn’t think a lot about it until later, but was it ever explained, why did her father never use or sell the shard? Even if he was trying to hide the fact that she had killed her mother, it seems like (especially in the desperate later years) he’d have found a way to leverage such a powerful resource. We know he had it because shallan could always see it behind the painting in the safe where he hid it.  Is it still just sitting in the Davar mansion even now?  

[kurotawa]

Shallan must have summoned Testament to hersef from the safebox where it was being kept. Then Killed hen Shallan killed her spren.

[+Bzhydack]

44 minutes ago, 88stew88 said:

 Is it still just sitting in the Davar mansion even now?  

Testament is in Cognitive in her spren form. This mean Shallan summoned her, and dismissed her, probably when she killed Tyn. Testament isnt anywhere in Physical Realm.

[88stew88]

No, she summoned pattern to kill Tyn.  And how could she dismiss the blade anyway once she broke her oath?  The blade would have needed to be gemmed and dismissed.  From what we know of the recreance, the blades materialize when the oath is broken, and then stay until bonded and dismissed.  

Edited February 6, 2021 by 88stew88

[+Bzhydack]

1 hour ago, 88stew88 said:

 

No, she summoned pattern to kill Tyn.  And how could she dismiss the blade anyway once she broke her oath?  The blade would have needed to be gemmed and dismissed.  From what we know of the recreance, the blades materialize when the oath is broken, and then stay until bonded and dismissed.  

 

She HAD TO dismiss Testament. Because in other case Testament will still be in Physical Realm, not in Cognitive. Spren exist only in one Realm, when they enter Physical, they disapear from Cognitive. Weve literally seen this.

Also, Shallan still has remains of this earlier Bond. We still dont know correct timeline, when she broke Oaths, but seems to me like she did this before she killed her mother, but even later she was able to lightweave sometimes, before she bonded Pattern.

[88stew88]

5 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

She HAD TO dismiss Testament. Because in other case Testament will still be in Physical Realm, not in Cognitive. Spren exist only in one Realm, when they enter Physical, they disapear from Cognitive. Weve literally seen this.

Also, Shallan still has remains of this earlier Bond. We still dont know correct timeline, when she broke Oaths, but seems to me like she did this before she killed her mother, but even later she was able to lightweave sometimes, before she bonded Pattern.

Disagree. It says in RoW that she broke her oath after she killed her mother because she was so angry and broken at her she had done.  We also know that for years she could still see the shardblade behind the picture (which still brings the point of why her father never at least tried to sell in for a fortune).
You’re theorizing, which is fine; but don’t just state as fact that she somehow magically dismissed Testament.  It wasn’t ever explained well in this book (which is why I posted asking), so we don’t know. Hopefully we get more information about it in the next book as I’m guessing we will see some advancement in the deadeyes storyline (my guess is that Adolin will get the bond Maya at some point in the next book)

[AquaRegia]

People have already put A LOT of thought into this question, for example: 

There is a big difference between "breaking a bond" and "breaking an Oath"... and there are degrees of each, they are not simply black and white.  Unlike the Recreance, Testament did not want to break her bond with Shallan, and I think the text makes it clear that Shallan's bond to Testament has remained in effect, to some degree, for all the past 10 years.  Many of us feel that the Testamentblade was probably NEVER really behind the painting; it was dismissed, and was nowhere in the Physical realm.  It was Shallan's guilt, shame, and imagination which conspired to make her "see it glowing".  Also, many of us feel confident that it was Testament that she used to kill Tyn.

Regarding the original question: Shallan's father was unstable, but he was sane enough to recognize that you can't just TAKE a Shardblade from the person it's bonded to - they can always simply resummon it.

[+Bzhydack]

8 hours ago, 88stew88 said:

Disagree. It says in RoW that she broke her oath after she killed her mother because she was so angry and broken at her she had done.  We also know that for years she could still see the shardblade behind the picture (which still brings the point of why her father never at least tried to sell in for a fortune).

First maybe true. Latter - dont think so. She can see it... but remember, Shallan isnt fully sain. She even stated in WoR that - locked Bonded Shardblade anywhere doesnt make sence, because it simply disapears.

8 hours ago, 88stew88 said:

You’re theorizing, which is fine; but don’t just state as fact that she somehow magically dismissed Testament.  It wasn’t ever explained well in this book (which is why I posted asking), so we don’t know. Hopefully we get more information about it in the next book as I’m guessing we will see some advancement in the deadeyes storyline (my guess is that Adolin will get the bond Maya at some point in the next book)

She dismissed Testament. This is fact.

Why?

Because Testament IS dismissed! Is in her Spren form in Shadesmar. Is not like Blade is simulanously in both Realms. Is in one or other. We CAN see this in RoW - we see many Deadeye in Lasting Integrity, when someone is summoned as Shardblade, disapears.

Only Shallan was bonded to testament, ergo, she had to dismiss her.

[Quick Ben]

2 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

First maybe true. Latter - dont think so. She can see it... but remember, Shallan isnt fully sain. She even stated in WoR that - locked Bonded Shardblade anywhere doesnt make sence, because it simply disapears.

She dismissed Testament. This is fact.

Why?

Because Testament IS dismissed! Is in her Spren form in Shadesmar. Is not like Blade is simulanously in both Realms. Is in one or other. We CAN see this in RoW - we see many Deadeye in Lasting Integrity, when someone is summoned as Shardblade, disapears.

Only Shallan was bonded to testament, ergo, she had to dismiss her.

Shallans bond to testament was broken - hence why testament is a dead eye, so @88stew88 is correct in what he is saying, a gemstone wasn't added to the testament blade by shallan meaning was not summonable/dismissable.

This is more evidence pointing to fact testament wasnt the "original plan" and was added at a later date to the story imo

[+Bzhydack]

1 minute ago, Quick Ben said:

Shallans bond to testament was broken - hence why testament is a dead eye, so @88stew88 is correct in what he is saying, a gemstone wasn't added to the testament blade by shallan meaning was not summonable/dismissable.

This is more evidence pointing to fact testament wasnt the "original plan" and was added at a later date to the story imo

No. It wasnt fully broken, because Shallan still had remnants of Lightweaving. All the time, before Pattern.

We also have this:

Quote

JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)
#7 April 21, 2018 Share Copy

 

Play/Pause

 

Argent

Do deadeyes disappear in Shadesmar when they are summoned as blades to the Physical Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, mostly.

 

#shardblades #spren

So Testament was dismissed. Also, Testament wasnt in Blade Form, when Shallan broke Oath (We saw this in Shalans memory clearly. Of course, Shalan ist reliable narrator...)

Also we know Deadeye Spren can be restore much easier, if original Radiant still is around (still not easy, thou). This mean remnants of Bond still are present.

[Bejarden]

Maybe there is an auto bond to a deadeye spren that you made

then she wouldn’t need a gem to bond it and can summon and dismis it and other cool lightweeving 

just a theory

[danex]

On 2/6/2021 at 9:46 AM, 88stew88 said:

We know he had it because shallan could always see it behind the painting in the safe where he hid it.  Is it still just sitting in the Davar mansion even now?  

That was Shallan’s traumatized mind hallucinating. It was dismissed almost immediately, as little kid Shallan hadn’t had any training to keep the blade manifested. And we see Shallan talking to Testament in spren form after she killed her mom, when she breaks her bond. So it was certainly dismissed. Here’s what the Coppermind says.

Quote

Her mother seized the knife and moved for Shallan, prompting Shallan to summon Testament as a Shardblade in self-defense. After killing both her mother and the associate, Shallan dropped the Blade and fell into a state of intense shock. Lin placed the Shardblade in his strongbox and held Shallan while singing "Sleep My Baby Dear" to soothe her.^[41][42] Though the Blade naturally vanished, Shallan began to associate it with her "Mother's soul," which she believed was held in the strongbox--an idea she clung to so firmly that the safe would visibly glow to Shallan's eyes.^[43]

 

On 2/6/2021 at 11:17 AM, 88stew88 said:

No, she summoned pattern to kill Tyn.

Nope, it was Testament. Absolutely. She has to count to 10, and living blades can be summoned instantly. I don’t even think she could’ve summoned Pattern at that point, I don’t think their bond was far enough along. 

18 hours ago, Quick Ben said:

This is more evidence pointing to fact testament wasnt the "original plan" and was added at a later date to the story imo

Absolutely not. There is a ton of foreshadowing for Testament. 

1. Having to count to 10 in the Tyn fight.
2. Pattern being convinced that Shallan will kill him eventually.
3. Pattern saying that another Spren would be sent when he dies.
4. Pattern then being mildly puzzled when Shallan asks why. He is confused because it has already happened once, so it makes sense for a third to be sent. He is confused as to why Shallan doesn’t come to the same conclusion.
5. The fact that Pattern is not very sentient when we first see him. If they had been bonded since Shallan was a child, he would be much more intelligent.  

[AquaRegia]

On 2/6/2021 at 1:17 PM, 88stew88 said:

And how could she dismiss the blade anyway once she broke her oath?  The blade would have needed to be gemmed and dismissed.

You are falling into a classic Brandon trap: just because the CHARACTERS believe something does not make it true.  Yes, it's common knowledge on Roshar that bonding a normal deadeye Shardblade requires gemstones... in exactly the same way that it's common knowledge among spren that deadeyes can't think or talk.  Surprise!  Turns out neither one is the whole truth.  Do you deny the fact, explicitly stated, that Shallan now has two Shardblades?  If not, what's your explanation of how she is bonded to Testament NOW?

Things characters "know" often turn out to be wrong, or only part of the story.  There is always another mystery.  It's one of the things that make BS's writing SO GOOD.

[KSub]

There were a lot of crumbs leading to Testament, I find it hard to believe that happened by accident.  We can't trust what Shallan thinks. I mean Shallan can't trust what Shallan thinks.

As for the 10 heartbeats we have this

Quote

Sources: treegrass' report - Reddit

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)
#2 

Questioner

Based on what we know currently about ten heartbeats, why does Szeth require ten heartbeats to bring forth his Honorblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Perception is a very important part of how these things all work, and remember the Honorblades work differently from everything else. Everything was based upon them. Why don't you read and find out what's going on there, but remember that the characters's perception is very important.

Questioner

So then that's why at one point Shallan requires ten heartbeats and now she doesn't?

Brandon Sanderson

Right, it's the exact same reason that Kaladin's forehead wounds don't heal. Because he views himself as having those somewhere deep inside of him and he can't heal until that gets away. And it works for the same reason why in Warbreaker when you bring something to life, your intention rather than really what you say is what matters. It's all about perception

 

[Shob the Voidbringer]

i think that it wasn't testament that killed tyn because, no screaming. radiants hear deadeye blades screaming, and shallan clearly did not. this may be different for the original radiant, but i'm not sure. anyway, her blade never screamed. so she has only ever summoned pattern in the series other that when she killed her mom

Edited February 8, 2021 by Shob the Voidbringer

[KSub]

5 minutes ago, Shob the Voidbringer said:

i think that it wasn't testament that killed tyn because, no screaming. radiants hear deadeye blades screaming, and shallan clearly did not. this may be different for the original radiant, but i'm not sure. anyway, her blade never screamed. so she has only ever summoned pattern in the series other that when she killed her mom

As you say, we don't know whether it's different for the original radiant or not. I think it would be different since they already had a bond. 

[Shob the Voidbringer]

still, shallan gave kaladin pattern and not testament, so i think she has been using pattern and all the ten heartbeats for shallan has been just her perception morphing her use and rules of the blade. had she summoned a blade to defend against pattern in way of kings, she would have used testament, because she had not sworn her third ideal, but after she did i think she subconsciously used pattern and could tell the difference between her two blades.

[teknopathetic]

22 hours ago, Shob the Voidbringer said:

still, shallan gave kaladin pattern and not testament, so i think she has been using pattern and all the ten heartbeats for shallan has been just her perception morphing her use and rules of the blade. 

We dont know that either. Kal had semi-broken his bond with Syl at that point, so it is possible that Khal could no longer hear the screams of a blade anymore. Kal couldn't draw stormlight anymore, and thats a pretty basic ability on a low oath-tier. 

We don't see Pattern during the chasm fight, so it isn't clear if he is the blade or he is somewhere else or if Shallan ignores him. 

EDIt: Sorry, audiobook listener so I forget the spellings a lot. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by teknopathetic

[danex]

11 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

We dont know that either. Khal had semi-broken his bond with Syl at that point, so it is possible that Khal could no longer hear the screams of a blade anymore. Khal couldn't draw starlight anymore, and thats a pretty basic ability on a low oath-tier. 

We don't see Pattern during the chasm fight, so it isn't clear if he is the blade or he is somewhere else or if Shallan ignores him. 

*Kal
*Stormlight

And we do know that it was pattern, because Shallan changes the shape of the blade. Only living blades can do that.