Has Hoid been a stoneward?

[Sylvass]

*TInfoil hat on*

According to the ars arcanum in RoW microkinesis, or Stoneshaping, was present on Yolen with more destructive abilities:

Quote

Fortunately, in my explorations, it appears that Stoneshaping is far less...explosive of a power, bounded by the rules that Honor placed upon it to protect from the mistakes that happened on Yolen.

So there are now two Surgebinding abilities on Roshar that also was present on Yolen. The second one being Lightweaving which is something Hoid already is able to do. According to a WoB microkinesis is not capable of splitting atoms however Brandon also says that it was capable of doing that in his original dragonsteel books.

So what leads me to believe Hoid has been a stoneward?
For a while Hoid was going under the name `Topaz` in reference to him being the bearer of the first gem. Topaz is also the gem associated with stonewards. Now this doesn't really make a strong point and could just be coincidence. However in chapter 68 in OB when Shallan and Hoid is talking he mentions this:

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"When I was young . . ." he said.
"Yes?"
"I made a vow."
Shallan nodded, wide-eyed.
"I said I'd always be there when I was needed."

This is also the subtitle given to the Stonewards in the quiz about the ten orders.
However he says `vow` and not instead of `oath` but that could be Brandon making sure he doesn't set off our cosmere alarms too easily.

*Second tinfoil hat on*

Spoiler

Did Hoid nuke Yolen?

 

[Kyn]

…With you up until the second tinfoil hat. That last theory doesn’t really go with doing no harm. However, did Stonewards (or any Order, really) exist as an organization back on Yolen? Would they even have taken oaths there, or was that a thing born of the desire to limit the powers in order not to destroy another world, and of Honor and/or the spren, after coming to Roshar?

Although, isn’t it likely most of the Surgebinding abilities would also have been on Yolen, if the humans fled to Roshar after destroying their homeworld using surgebinding? I’m not sure why the abilities would remain the same when they’re supposedly born of Honor and Cultivation, who were already on Roshar.

So, especially since Odium can offer (most of) the same abilities to his Fused, these abilities are likely more universal, inherent to Investiture in general rather than limited to individual Shards. Or at least to Investiture the way it manifests in the Rosharan System (although similarities with certain abilities from other systems seem to exist, as well, hmmm). 

At least, most of the abilities seem likely to be universal – there may be questions about Adhesion, for example.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

56 minutes ago, Sylvass said:

According to a WoB microkinesis is not capable of splitting atoms however Brandon also says that it was capable of doing that in his original dragonsteel books.

Important note: the WoB says that Division does not split atoms. We have WoBs indicating that microkinesis likely still can.

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Snipexe

Could you create a nuclear bomb using the Surge of Division?

Brandon Sanderson

Not Division, but there are cosmere powers that are built around splitting atoms.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

 

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ccstat

There IS historical precedent of accidentally setting off fission reactions in the cosmere using the magic

Now this is a story I look forward to hearing :-)

Brandon Sanderson

One of the first magic systems I designed for the cosmere was based on the manipulation of sub-atomic particles, and involved the ability to look directly at atoms and interact with them. I decided to back off on this, as it was a whopper of a magic system to get right with my limited (at the time) writing experience. It was fun, though, and is still a canonical Cosmere magic.

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Oct. 19, 2016)

 

6 minutes ago, Kyn said:

Although, isn’t it likely most of the Surgebinding abilities would also have been on Yolen, if the humans fled to Roshar after destroying their homeworld using surgebinding?

Humans fled Ashyn, another planet in the Rosharan system, not Yolen.

58 minutes ago, Sylvass said:

For a while Hoid was going under the name `Topaz` in reference to him being the bearer of the first gem.

Also relevant to that title:

Quote

luiz_m2

Is the fact that Hoid has been a Dawnshard related in some way with the "bearer of the first gem" title?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes indeed.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 9, 2020)

 

58 minutes ago, Sylvass said:

Topaz is also the gem associated with stonewards. Now this doesn't really make a strong point and could just be coincidence. However in chapter 68 in OB when Shallan and Hoid is talking he mentions this:

I've seen this pointed out before, and still not certain what I think of it, to be honest. It feels like it can't be a coincidence, but I would be very surprised if it was just straight up Stonewards. But then, y'never know, I guess.

[Sylvass]

1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Important note: the WoB says that Division does not split atoms. We have WoBs indicating that microkinesis likely still can.

Oh that's true. I probably got confused writing that and I just remembered that Stonewards surges are Cohesion and Tension, not Division.

 

[Sylvass]

20 minutes ago, Kyn said:

…With you up until the second tinfoil hat. That last theory doesn’t really go with doing no harm.

That comes from Hoid being a dawnshard so he would have been able to do harm before that.
Though to be honest that part was mostly a joke. However the text still hints at something nuclear going off on Yolen.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Sylvass

[Kyn]

@LewsTherinTelescope

Thanks for the correction, I suck with names, but I actually knew Ashyn, so who knows why I just inserted the earlier world the OP mentioned after Autocorrect did its thing. I consider it a victory when I catch its autocorrecting to it’s.

But I was really looking forward to a story with subatomic manipulation that could set off a fission reaction, too bad it’s not a thing yet.

@Sylvass

Kind of figured that was tongue in cheek. And I guess it would make sense that if Hoid screwed up like that, he might then choose to take up a violence-inhibiting Dawnshard, perhaps in recompense.

But maybe we’ll both get lucky and there will eventually be a story about Yolen and its hopefully-inadvertent first microkinesis-induced nuclear winter.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

11 minutes ago, Kyn said:

Thanks for the correction, I suck with names, but I actually knew Ashyn, so who knows why I just inserted the earlier world the OP mentioned after Autocorrect did its thing. I consider it a victory when I catch its autocorrecting to it’s.

Haha fair enough.

11 minutes ago, Kyn said:

But I was really looking forward to a story with subatomic manipulation that could set off a fission reaction, too bad it’s not a thing yet.

That'll definitely be interesting, yeah.

[mathiau he/him]

On 02/02/2021 at 10:29 PM, Sylvass said:

Oh that's true. I probably got confused writing that and I just remembered that Stonewards surges are Cohesion and Tension, not Division.

Note that Cohesion was described as similar to microkinesis by Kriss

[SecondPlace he/him]

I could be wrong, but I think that taking oaths to gain magic is unique to surge binding because it was created by Honor, I think that on Yolen they had similar magic but they gained access to it with different methods. I do agree that they could probably create nukes with microkinesis, which is why Honor put limits on surgebinding.