Dreamwa1ker she/her Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) There is a WOB getting discussed a lot around the origins of Ba-Ado-Mishram's name: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14590 Quote LewsTherinTelescope Does "Ba-Ado-Mishram" mean "child of the light of Cultivation and Honor"? Brandon Sanderson RAFO, but you're doing a pretty good job picking apart the linguistics of that. General Reddit 2020 (Dec. 22, 2020) Now I was recently listening to a history podcast that happened to do an episode on ancient Babylon and they mentioned some of the Mesopotamian pantheon - the names struck me as a bit Rosharan, reminding me of some of the Unmade. So of course I then proceeded down a rabbit hole looking for Mesopotamian name inspirations for the Unmade of the hour, Ba-Ado-Mishram. My finding: Ishara Quote Ishara is the Hittite word for "treaty, binding promise", also personified as a goddess of the oath. This one namewise sounds close-ish to Mishram, but the description fits Honor. Obviously also could provide some roots for our Bondsmith Herald as well. Ishtar is also another goddess commonly conflated with Ishara so that makes the name a bit closer to Mishram. Bau/Baba Quote Her epithets are "great healer of the land" and "great healer of the black-headed ones", a "herb grower", "the lady who makes the broken up whole again", and "creates life in the land", making her a vegetation/fertility goddess endowed with regenerative power.[ Sounds a lot like Cultivation. Could this be referring to Cultivation and Honor, with BAM being originally their child as indicated in the WOB? Or could these rather be hints to Ba-Ado-Mishram's arc? The Ishtar/Ishara potential reference does sound pretty fitting for BAM being the one who connected to the Singers and seemed to have connections to all the spren and other things on Roshar. Could the Bau reference be to the future, bringing back BAM could maybe "make the broken up whole again"? Edited February 2, 2021 by Dreamwa1ker 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliroz-The-Confused Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 You're very likely barking up the right tree looking at Mesopotamian languages* for Ba-Ado-Mishram (especially considering that Nergal/Nirgal is only vowel-different from Nergaoul), but I don't think it's the only possibility, or the only tree worth barking up, because not all of the Unmade have Mesopotamian-derived names**. *Counting Hittite as Mesopotamian in addition to Anatolian for the moment, since they lived in Northern Mesopotamia as well as Anatolia (in other words, defining "Mesopotamian languages" as languages anciently spoken by cultures that dominated at least parts of the area between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers). **For example, Molech/Moloch is only vowel-different from Moelach, and Molech/Moloch is a Canaanite deity, rather than Mesopotamian, so I think that region's languages might also be worth looking into (now, if only I knew more about said languages). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless he/him Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) Oh wow, that Ishar Oath thing seems far too significant to overlook. Did you try looking at the other Heralds' names? There might be a Mesopotamian or Hebrew basis for their names as well Edit: here, I'll add some of the older threads on the names of the Unmade: Edited February 4, 2021 by Honorless 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration he/him Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) @Dreamwa1ker Ba-ado-Mishram's name is not of Middle East origin Spoiler Doombrigade (paraphrased) I noticed most of the Unmade have a Middle Eastern mythology inspiration, and could pair them with deities, but I couldn't find a fit for two: Yelig-nar and Ba-Ado-Mishram. Could you tell us their names' origin? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Those two are actully not Middle Eastern but actually inspired by Lovecraft. ICon 2019 (Oct. 17, 2019) Edited February 4, 2021 by Frustration 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Cyprian Wiley Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, Frustration said: @Dreamwa1ker Ba-ado-Mishram's name is not of Middle East origin Hide contents Doombrigade (paraphrased) I noticed most of the Unmade have a Middle Eastern mythology inspiration, and could pair them with deities, but I couldn't find a fit for two: Yelig-nar and Ba-Ado-Mishram. Could you tell us their names' origin? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Those two are actully not Middle Eastern but actually inspired by Lovecraft. ICon 2019 (Oct. 17, 2019) But Lovecraft was influenced by Middle Eastern sounding names. The Necronomicon's fictional origin was Arabic. Spoiler Quote The Necronomicon, also referred to as the Book of the Dead, or under a purported original Arabic title of Kitab al-Azif, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration he/him Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Chiri-Chiri<3 said: But Lovecraft was influenced by Middle Eastern sounding names. The Necronomicon's fictional origin was Arabic. Reveal hidden contents and? it'd be easier to find it in lovecraft, and having recently gone looking for Mishram's name inspiration myself the closest I could find was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos_deities#Mh'ithrha Edited February 4, 2021 by Frustration 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwa1ker she/her Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Frustration said: and? it'd be easier to find it in lovecraft, and having recently gone looking for Mishram's name inspiration myself the closest I could find was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos_deities#Mh'ithrha Ok your Mh'hithra reference led me to something else interesting, this time ancient Persian/Zoroastrian: Mithra Quote Mithra commonly known as Mehr, is the Zoroastrian angelic divinity (yazata) of covenant, light, and oath. In addition to being the divinity of contracts, Mithra is also a judicial figure, an all-seeing protector of Truth, and the guardian of cattle, the harvest, and of the Waters. And the etymology Quote Together with the Vedic common noun mitra, the Avestan common noun miθra derives from Proto-Indo-Iranian *mitrám (Mitra), from the root *mi- "to bind", with the "tool suffix" -tra- "causing to". Thus, etymologically mitra means "that which causes binding", preserved in the Avestan word for "Covenant, Contract, Oath". These all seem to go back to some related ancient languages like proto-indo-iranian so seem to have common roots in general. Perhaps inspiration for the names Ishar and Mishram both come from something like this. Edited February 4, 2021 by Dreamwa1ker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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