Mist and stormlight

[Pratyaksh]

Could mist be another type of light like lifelight and voidlight?.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

Yes.

Even two types of Light. Bright mists is Preservationlight and dark mists is Ruinlight. Sometimes are Grey mists and this is Harmonylight.

[Knight of Iron]

And I'm pretty sure Breath is just basically Endowmentlight.

I love to think about potential combinations! Anyone think you could mix three lights together? Rosharlight?

[stonewalker16]

I wonder if mixing all 16 would create Adonalism light

[+Bzhydack he/him]

12 minutes ago, Knight of Iron said:

And I'm pretty sure Breath is just basically Endowmentlight.

I love to think about potential combinations! Anyone think you could mix three lights together? Rosharlight?

Also, Dor on Sel is mixed Devotionlight and Dominionlight.

Evil on Threnody is Ambitionlight.

[Honorless he/him]

Yes, they're gaseous manifestations of Investiture belonging to their respective Shards, so the Mists are the Scadrian equivalent of the Rosharan Stormlight albeit less easily accessible.

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

Evil on Threnody is Ambitionlight.

It can't be just that, probably Corruption and/or weirder Spiritual stuff going on there

[mathiau he/him]

2 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Yes, they're gaseous manifestations of Investiture belonging to their respective Shards, so the Mists are the Scadrian equivalent of the Rosharan Stormlight albeit less easily accessible.

I personally find Mists, Breaths and Lights too fundamentally different, with the first two being stable in the human body, Mists being quite stable in the atmosphere and and Breaths being stable in every solids.

49 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Also, Dor on Sel is mixed Devotionlight and Dominionlight.

Evil on Threnody is Ambitionlight.

These are sprens, not lights

[+Bzhydack he/him]

16 minutes ago, mathiau said:

These are sprens, not lights

No.

Seons/Skaze are spren equivalent from Sel. Dor itself is gaseous Investiture of Devotion and Dominion, mean Lights, just pushed into Cognitive Realm.

Evil, right, probably is something more, because Can create Cognitive Shadows, and is hostile to humans, so indeed, probably this is some equivalent of Stormfather. But also there is a lot of Free Ambitionlight.

[Honorless he/him]

27 minutes ago, mathiau said:

I personally find Mists, Breaths and Lights too fundamentally different, with the first two being stable in the human body, Mists being quite stable in the atmosphere and and Breaths being stable in every solids.

Well of course they're different, they're Investiture from different Shards with different Intents, they're all integrated into their Shardworlds' ecosystem differently, and they all interact with their native Invested Arts or magic system differently (but are all capable of fuelling them)

But overall, they all fit under an overarching category of being gaseous manifestations of Investiture.

The Mists in particular, are particularly similar to Stormlight, both are connected to natural weather phenomena and they're reactions with Hemalurgy remind me of Navani's experiments with Lights and Anti-Lights...

[KSub]

I agree the mist and ruins black smoke are quite similar to stormlight, etc. I don't find examples of similar investiture on other shardworlds. Not to say there are not any, just that we haven't seen that.

Its been a long time since I read Elantris. I don't have any recollection of the Dor, maybe they are similar. 

I think the reason stormlight is so accessible has to do with Roshar and it having a strange connection to Shadesmar. If we look at Scadrial, the metals allow for access to investiture and the mist is pure investiture. On Roshar there is no physical world access to investiture, the stormlight is just available.

[mathiau he/him]

33 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

No.

Seons/Skaze are spren equivalent from Sel. Dor itself is gaseous Investiture of Devotion and Dominion, mean Lights, just pushed into Cognitive Realm.

Evil, right, probably is something more, because Can create Cognitive Shadows, and is hostile to humans, so indeed, probably this is some equivalent of Stormfather. But also there is a lot of Free Ambitionlight.

After checking the wiki, the Dor is indeed not a spren. No confirmation for the Evil.

I don't remember seeing any clear gazeous investiture on Threnody, I think the wood where misty so maybe some mists of Ambition

24 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Well of course they're different, they're Investiture from different Shards with different Intents, they're all integrated into their Shardworlds' ecosystem differently, and they all interact with their native Invested Arts or magic system differently (but are all capable of fuelling them)

But overall, they all fit under an overarching category of being gaseous manifestations of Investiture.

The Mists in particular, are particularly similar to Stormlight, both are connected to natural weather phenomena and they're reactions with Hemalurgy remind me of Navani's experiments with Lights and Anti-Lights...

By different I meant if Harmony went to Roshar he'd probably start creating harmonylight which would behave in a way far more similar to stormlight. I find unlikely that gazeous investiture would work nearly the same way for Odium, Honour and Cultivation but very differently with Preservation and Harmony.

Another thing that makes me thing each shard can have more than one gaseous investiture is the colour issue. Preservation and Ruin are not actually white and black, they only seemed to be that way on Scadrial after a time , their real colour is RAFO. So that imply their mists didn't start white or could have been of on other colour in an other situation.

3 minutes ago, KSub said:

I agree the mist and ruins black smoke are quite similar to stormlight, etc. I don't find examples of similar investiture on other shardworlds. Not to say there are not any, just that we haven't seen that.

Its been a long time since I read Elantris. I don't have any recollection of the Dor, maybe they are similar. 

I think the reason stormlight is so accessible has to do with Roshar and it having a strange connection to Shadesmar. If we look at Scadrial, the metals allow for access to investiture and the mist is pure investiture. On Roshar there is no physical world access to investiture, the stormlight is just available.

The Dor is a mass of investiture looked into the Cognitive realm, it don't physically appears in the book. And it looks like plasma in Shadesmar

Edited January 20, 2021 by mathiau

[basement_boi he/him]

Brandon has confirmed in a WOB that the pulses from the Well of Ascension are a "pure tone of Scadrial"

[mathiau he/him]

Just now, basement_boi said:

Brandon has confirmed in a WOB that the pulses from the Well of Ascension are a "pure tone of Scadrial"

Yes but it doesn't really help us know whether mists and light are the same thing, does it?

[basement_boi he/him]

3 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Yes but it doesn't really help us know whether mists and light are the same thing, does it?

Well, we know that the pure tones affect the investiture. When the mists start returning, that is when the pulses start getting very loud for Vin.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

58 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Yes but it doesn't really help us know whether mists and light are the same thing, does it?

I can put here dozens WoBs talking about mists and yes they are technicly the same as Stormlight. Of course, Stormlight is Investiture, mean, Body of Honor (not vessels Body, essence of Shard) in gaseous form, and Mists are Investiture of Preservation/Ruin/Harmony. As well as Lifelight is Cultivations Body.

[mathiau he/him]

Just now, Bzhydack said:

I can put here dozens WoBs talking about mists and yes they are technicly the same as Stormlight. Of course, Stormlight is Investiture, mean, Body of Honor (not vessels Body, essence of Shard) in gaseous form, and Mists are Investiture of Preservation/Ruin/Harmony. As well as Lifelight is Cultivations Body.

I agree with everything you just said. I just also think Honour's body could manifest in a way more similar to the mist and Harmony's one in a way more similar to stormlight.

By the way, wasen't lerasium also Preservation's body?

[+Bzhydack he/him]

Just now, mathiau said:

I agree with everything you just said. I just also think Honour's body could manifest in a way more similar to the mist and Harmony's one in a way more similar to stormlight.

By the way, wasen't lerasium also Preservation's body?

Yep, Godmetal is Shards Body. So Lerasium is Preservations body, Atium Ruins, Ettmetal Harmonys, Raisium Odiums, Honorblades metal is Honors Body (Tanavastium), Shardblades are mixed Tanavastium and Koravarium (Cultivations) and so on, but we yet to see other Godmetals.

Investiture can manifest in 3 states like other matter - solid, as metal, gaseous, as mists/Lights, and also liquid (in Shardpools, in Perpendicularity mostly, but not always).

[mathiau he/him]

1 minute ago, Bzhydack said:

Yep, Godmetal is Shards Body. So Lerasium is Preservations body, Atium Ruins, Ettmetal Harmonys, Raisium Odiums, Honorblades metal is Honors Body (Tanavastium), Shardblades are mixed Tanavastium and Koravarium (Cultivations) and so on, but we yet to see other Godmetals.

Investiture can manifest in 3 states like other matter - solid, as metal, gaseous, as mists/Lights, and also liquid (in Shardpools, in Perpendicularity mostly, but not always).

It think Brandon confirmed metallic Dor exists too.

So we don't have any reason to think there's only one gaseous way for investiture to manifest, do we? Especially since Harmony can create lerasium so they can manifest in more than one way for the solid state.

[+Harrycrapper]

1 hour ago, KSub said:

I agree the mist and ruins black smoke are quite similar to stormlight, etc. I don't find examples of similar investiture on other shardworlds. Not to say there are not any, just that we haven't seen that.

Its been a long time since I read Elantris. I don't have any recollection of the Dor, maybe they are similar. 

I think the reason stormlight is so accessible has to do with Roshar and it having a strange connection to Shadesmar. If we look at Scadrial, the metals allow for access to investiture and the mist is pure investiture. On Roshar there is no physical world access to investiture, the stormlight is just available.

Breath on Nalthis is similar to mists/stormlight, it just doesn't leak out of people like it does the others. Voidlight is the closest we've seen to Breath in terms of it not leaving someone's body as quickly as the others. Though because it's from Endowment, it can be easily given unlike the piece of Preservation that humans on Scadrial have to make them sapient. 

I don't think the Dor is a gaseous form of Investiture, I think Brandon referred to it as plasma stuck in the Cognitive Realm. 

I think the main difference between Scadrial and Roshar is that Scadrial was created by Ruin and Preservation and their magic systems are built into the planet. Whereas on Roshar, Honor Invested the Highstorm which already existed before he got there. Technically, there are physical manifestations of Honor's Investiture that don't need stormlight to function. Shardblades don't actually require any stormlight to function, though Shardplate does. I think another main difference is the people themselves. Unlike Scadrial, I don't think the humans on Roshar were created by Shards after the Shattering of Adonalsium. They don't have a piece of Honor in them like Scadrians have a piece of Preservation. As far as we know, I don't think they can't just ingest and burn Honor's godmetal to make themselves Surgebinders like Scadrians can with Lerasium to make themselves mistborn(which also flows to any children they have). I think it's also relevant that in both cases of a supernatural weather condition that contains Investiture also involves a dead Shard. In Scadrial's case, Preservation was essentially braindead and the mists were on autopilot. They didn't behave the way the did during Era 1 or Scadrians would never have been able to see the stars. In Roshar's case, Honor was Shattered and the Highstorm which had already been Invested by him seems to have absorbed a decent chunk of his power. 

[KSub]

You're right @Harrycrapper Breaths are similar to stormlight. I was thinking of all the differences between awakeners access to breaths vs stormlight but that's just a product of the magic system not the investiture itself.

Also a side note to something mentioned earlier in the thread. The investiture on threnody could be odium. There's a WOB saying that he was injured in his fight with Ambition. I think it's likely Ambition was invested on Threnody and fled when Odium arrived leaving some investiture on the planet. But it's interesting that it could be Odium. Those shades seem pretty hateful when provoked.

Edited January 20, 2021 by KSub

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

4 hours ago, Honorless said:

Well of course they're different, they're Investiture from different Shards with different Intents, they're all integrated into their Shardworlds' ecosystem differently, and they all interact with their native Invested Arts or magic system differently (but are all capable of fuelling them)

But overall, they all fit under an overarching category of being gaseous manifestations of Investiture.

The Mists in particular, are particularly similar to Stormlight, both are connected to natural weather phenomena and they're reactions with Hemalurgy remind me of Navani's experiments with Lights and Anti-Lights...

It really makes you wonder why Thaidakar is going so far afield to find free-standing Investiture. Wouldn’t it be easier to work on his own planet?

[+Bzhydack he/him]

19 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

It really makes you wonder why Thaidakar is going so far afield to find free-standing Investiture. Wouldn’t it be easier to work on his own planet?

Looks like he isnt in very good relationship with Harmony, despite all their past. Also, Mists are free floating Inestiture, but

1. You need to negotiate with God to get them.

2. Practicly you cannot contain them.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Bzhydack

[basement_boi he/him]

1 hour ago, Harrycrapper said:

As far as we know, I don't think they can't just ingest and burn Honor's godmetal to make themselves Surgebinders like Scadrians can with Lerasium to make themselves mistborn(which also flows to any children they have). 

Well, Lerasium is a metal from Preservation, the Shard that created the Metallic Arts. He specifically designed Lerasium in such a way that it would fit with anybody to turn them into a mistborn. Besides, Atium does something in Allomancy that isn’t giving them Hemalurgic abilities, thought I’m not sure how that would work.

[mathiau he/him]

51 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

Breath on Nalthis is similar to mists/stormlight, it just doesn't leak out of people like it does the others. Voidlight is the closest we've seen to Breath in terms of it not leaving someone's body as quickly as the others. Though because it's from Endowment, it can be easily given unlike the piece of Preservation that humans on Scadrial have to make them sapient. 

I don't think the Dor is a gaseous form of Investiture, I think Brandon referred to it as plasma stuck in the Cognitive Realm. 

I think the main difference between Scadrial and Roshar is that Scadrial was created by Ruin and Preservation and their magic systems are built into the planet. Whereas on Roshar, Honor Invested the Highstorm which already existed before he got there. Technically, there are physical manifestations of Honor's Investiture that don't need stormlight to function. Shardblades don't actually require any stormlight to function, though Shardplate does. I think another main difference is the people themselves. Unlike Scadrial, I don't think the humans on Roshar were created by Shards after the Shattering of Adonalsium. They don't have a piece of Honor in them like Scadrians have a piece of Preservation. As far as we know, I don't think they can't just ingest and burn Honor's godmetal to make themselves Surgebinders like Scadrians can with Lerasium to make themselves mistborn(which also flows to any children they have). I think it's also relevant that in both cases of a supernatural weather condition that contains Investiture also involves a dead Shard. In Scadrial's case, Preservation was essentially braindead and the mists were on autopilot. They didn't behave the way the did during Era 1 or Scadrians would never have been able to see the stars. In Roshar's case, Honor was Shattered and the Highstorm which had already been Invested by him seems to have absorbed a decent chunk of his power. 

Why does Lift's eyes stays white when she uses lifelight to power her surges? She's using an investiture from another shard to power her abilities which is the definition of corrupting investiture, same with Renarin's voidbinding powered by stormlight and Venli's surges with voidlight. Nightblood literally turn everything he touch to corrupted breaths, how does feeding him light don't create any red?

Why can you use both stormlight and towerlight to power Urithiru's fabrials?

Why can you use pure stormlight to regrow plates made form Koravellium-Tanavatium allow?

The light's are just power that slightly remember it came from somewhere and it's supposed to return there and could forget it if the planet didn't constantly reminded them. Remember any Seeker can hear the rhythms while you needed one of the strongest Seekers of all time to hear the Well.

Breaths and Preservation's mist are different, they're not jute a fuel they also give you the ability to use them. Remember when Wax used the Survivor's spear to effectively become a fullborn and started leaking mist? (yeah 'cause that spearhead shaped thing made by Kelsier was definitely not the bands of mourning) Well turns out nicrosil don't work like iron but like copper: you don't store "time as a lurcher" but directly a part of your lurcher ability, part that you won't recover until you draw what you stored. It means that if you store back your powers the nicrosil will be as filled as before, yet Wax commented it'd "have to be filled back via compounding". It could just be that Wax accidentally kept the powers, but while using the spear he had inquisitor level steelsight which he don't have afterward. Therefore some power was lost, very probably in the leaked mist.

Also we've seen the mist transform people into mistings in Era 1

19 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

It really makes you wonder why Thaidakar is going so far afield to find free-standing Investiture. Wouldn’t it be easier to work on his own planet?

Not everyone can draw on the mists, Thaidakar himself should be unable. On the other hand we know returned can breath stormlight in. Also my ealier point about mist being probably able to create mistborns.

Just now, Bzhydack said:

2. Practicly you cannot contain them.

We've never seen anyone try to put them in nicrosilmind and we know it'd work with breaths. Honestly the question is more why not start with breath+nicrosil compounding, possibly because having a lot of breaths in you makes you powerful but with lights at some point it becomes dangerous, or because my hypothesis that lights are inherently easy to use to power other magic system is true.

Also, anyone else get the felling his far more intrested in voidlight than stormlight?

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

8 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Why does Lift's eyes stays white when she uses lifelight to power her surges? She's using an investiture from another shard to power her abilities which is the definition of corrupting investiture, same with Renarin's voidbinding powered by stormlight and Venli's surges with voidlight. Nightblood literally turn everything he touch to corrupted breaths, how does feeding him light don't create any red?

Why can you use both stormlight and towerlight to power Urithiru's fabrials?

Why can you use pure stormlight to regrow plates made form Koravellium-Tanavatium allow?

The light's are just power that slightly remember it came from somewhere and it's supposed to return there and could forget it if the planet didn't constantly reminded them. Remember any Seeker can hear the rhythms while you needed one of the strongest Seekers of all time to hear the Well.

Breaths and Preservation's mist are different, they're not jute a fuel they also give you the ability to use them. Remember when Wax used the Survivor's spear to effectively become a fullborn and started leaking mist? (yeah 'cause that spearhead shaped thing made by Kelsier was definitely not the bands of mourning) Well turns out nicrosil don't work like iron but like copper: you don't store "time as a lurcher" but directly a part of your lurcher ability, part that you won't recover until you draw what you stored. It means that if you store back your powers the nicrosil will be as filled as before, yet Wax commented it'd "have to be filled back via compounding". It could just be that Wax accidentally kept the powers, but while using the spear he had inquisitor level steelsight which he don't have afterward. Therefore some power was lost, very probably in the leaked mist.

Also we've seen the mist transform people into mistings in Era 1

Not everyone can draw on the mists, Thaidakar himself should be unable. On the other hand we know returned can breath stormlight in. Also my ealier point about mist being probably able to create mistborns.

We've never seen anyone try to put them in nicrosilmind and we know it'd work with breaths. Honestly the question is more why not start with breath+nicrosil compounding, possibly because having a lot of breaths in you makes you powerful but with lights at some point it becomes dangerous, or because my hypothesis that lights are inherently easy to use to power other magic system is true.

Also, anyone else get the felling his far more intrested in voidlight than stormlight?

Very possibly. He should be able to channel it though, even if not into himself.

I was thinking more that if he could capture Mist, he could use that to solve the Connection problem with Investiture. Even if he ends up selling Storm/Voidlight, he could do all the experiments at home under his direct supervision. Why do it on Roshar? Is Roshar the key to the Connection issue? More accurately, does Thaidakar think it is?