Are Copperminds cheating?

[Quantus he/him]

1 minute ago, mathiau said:

That was not my point. Also without actually what?

Sorry about that, accidentally deleted a few bits right as I was posting.  Reload to get the full post 

1 minute ago, mathiau said:

In this case that dictionary as exact

Did you do the same thing?

[mathiau he/him]

5 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Also, when you are talking about absorbing a whole lot of book information without going through the full process of absorbing and internalizing the information, it's just going to be a lot of image memories of book pages.

It'll actually be sound memory of your inner voice reading the book. And as I say in my first post it's possible to do test that test if you're able use your knowledge and not just if you have that knowledge, coppermind won't help you for that.

Just now, Quantus said:

Did you do the same thing?

Actually I meant you were right to say learning =/= knowing even if the dictionary seemed to say the opposite. "Knows how to" and "has learned how to" is essentially the only case where they're the same

[Quantus he/him]

1 minute ago, mathiau said:

It'll actually be sound memory of your inner voice reading the book.

Heh, not the way I learn...

1 minute ago, mathiau said:

And as I say in my first post it's possible to do test that test if you're able use your knowledge and not just if you have that knowledge, coppermind won't help you for that.

Ok, I think I get you now, and I think we're on the same page.  At the end of the day, in the context of a Jeapordy-style contest, I dont really see any difference (other than practical effectiveness) between using a Coppermind and having a bunch of Answers written on your arm. 

2 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Actually I meant you were right to say learning =/= knowing even if the dictionary seemed to say the opposite. "Knows how to" and "has learned how to" is essentially the only case where they're the same

I could see the argument on something that is literally just rote memorization: the Letter and paragraph of Rulebooks, the "Places and Dates" part of History.  But even those examples tend to have other areas that require a deeper Understanding than just a regurgitation of facts, at least when taken to the point of a profession/trade.  

This does raise a question that I dont know we have an answer to: you can Store Memories in Copper, can you store Skills, things that are less memorization and more applied understanding and procedures and things?  Could somebody store their Musical skills with an instrument that they refined and practiced way in the past but then left alone for decades?  Could I have stored all that nice Calculus that I was great with in College but havent touched in too many years?  Can you store "Muscle-Memory"?

[StanLemon]

Keep in mind that Keepers and likely most Copper Ferrings do memory training exercises to get the most of their Copperminds. The more you can retain without your Coppermind the more you'll get out of it. 

[Quantus he/him]

12 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Keep in mind that Keepers and likely most Copper Ferrings do memory training exercises to get the most of their Copperminds. The more you can retain without your Coppermind the more you'll get out of it. 

True, but the point (or at least my point) is not whether the process is effective or can be trained up, rather it's a) whether it's the same as the stereotypical "photographic memory" and b.) whether it would be considered Fair to use in a Memory Competition with non-Ferrings.  I vote 'No' in both cases.  

 

For what it's worth, it has also been recently confirmed that there is an an practical limit to how much memory a person can hold before they need supernatural assistance.  Trying to keep it as spoiler free as possible, but it was confirmed that after a long enough time a person will need to store memories in magic means to preserve them.  Whether that's an issue of total capacity or long-term storage stability (ie memories just getting normal fuzzy) is probably debatable.  

[StanLemon]

What I was getting at is that someone with Copper Feruchemy likely has a good memory anyway. I would say it isn't fair to use it during said competition but I wouldn't complain if the dumped stores they thought would be relevant beforehand though 

[+robardin he/him]

5 hours ago, Voidspawn said:

But with a Coppermind, you actually had to learn it.

Maybe. There are now such things as unsealed coppermind medallions, as we saw at the end of Bands of Mourning...

The nature of coppermind sharing is still a WoB/RAFO, but imagine if it became possible to "learn" things by tapping an already-filled coppermind, kind of like that scene in The Matrix where Neo learns kung-fu by staying neurally hooked up for ten hours straight (apparently a crazy thing to do)?

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by robardin