O Cultivation!!

[Aon Tia she/her]

Is Cultivation mad or genius? Do you think that she has made things worse, like way worse or she has an ace up her sleeve with regard to you know what, you know who!!?
what do you think? Please share. 

[Theoryspren]

She has definitely made things worse by giving Taravangian the power of Odium, I am sure she thinks she did a great thing but it is terrible.

[Aon Tia she/her]

I agree. Giving the power of Odium into the hands of an egotistical, megalomaniac, narcissistic, utilitarian moralist who can go to any lengths, world saviour wannabe, not to mention extremely intelligent human! What could go wrong!?

[+Invocation]

I think she thinks she's done something absolutely masterful. 
I don't think she's actually thought it through as much as she thinks she has, especially with the new future-sight altering corruptedTruthwatchers on the way.

[Aon Tia she/her]

Agreed. These Knight Prescients are messing up the future sight for C as much as they are doing it for T’O. 
Also I do wonder if the boon will still trouble T ? 

[+Invocation]

12 minutes ago, Aon Tia said:

Also I do wonder if the boon will still trouble T ? 

That's the answer we all want to know. Someone asked it as a hypothetical a while back and got (predictably) RAFO'd. At least we have a shot of finding out.

[Aon Tia she/her]

It would make for a very interesting read to have a vessel with vacillating intelligence and emotion. His actions could become totally erratic! 
And would also show that C is not so crazy after all. 
I also wonder if his connection with the power will similarly fluctuate becoming stronger on the days when he is extra emotional. 

[Proletariat]

It is pretty rogue, tbqh. When Preservation was setting up Sazed as a future vessel he was essentially resolving an inter-Shard conflict, while also creating a Shard that would really struggle to make use of its power and thus was less likely to oppress the populace. Cultivation seems to have done the exact opposite, and now the conflict between Singers and humans might end but the one between Roshar and Scadrial's forces across the Cosmere is going to go off.

[HoidIsAdonalsium]

1 hour ago, Proletariat said:

It is pretty rogue, tbqh. When Preservation was setting up Sazed as a future vessel he was essentially resolving an inter-Shard conflict, while also creating a Shard that would really struggle to make use of its power and thus was less likely to oppress the populace. Cultivation seems to have done the exact opposite, and now the conflict between Singers and humans might end but the one between Roshar and Scadrial's forces across the Cosmere is going to go off.

Yep. TaraOdium admits that he did not need to focus on saving Roshar, since the deal made between Dalinar-Rayse already guaranteed it. He has turned his focus on saving the Cosmere, which is being ruled by broken gods. The loophole that he has found is probably relating to him managing to break free of Roshar in some manner.

 

11 hours ago, Aon Tia said:

Is Cultivation mad or genius? Do you think that she has made things worse, like way worse or she has an ace up her sleeve with regard to you know what, you know who!!?
what do you think? Please share. 

 Brandon RAFO'd whether Taravangians boon/bane would apply to TaraOdium. It's hard to judge what her Endgame is. She has been far more subtle, and Brandon hasn't revealed enough for us to guess

[WasingtheWhy]

It has been said before, though, that Cultivation sees the future better than the other Shards, though. It's true that Renarin is probably a blind spot for anyone with future sight, but she has been playing the long game for a while now.

I think Brandon is considering Cultivation to have 3 plans. A plan, a backup plan, and an ace in the hole. Dalinar was plan one. She changed him first, before Gavilar's death. Taravangian was the backup plan. He was after Gavilar's death. Lift is the ace in the hole. We don't know exactly what her reasoning for changing Lift is, yet. It involves the fact that she metabolizes Lifelight directly from food, and doesn't actually use Stormlight to fuel her powers like we initially thought.

Besides, you can't tell me that she didn't know what a piece of crap Taravangian was when she changed him. He made his motivations very clear. And we all know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. She knew what kind of person Dalinar was when he went to her. She pretty much saw right through him. There is no way she didn't know how arrogant and narcissistic he was when he went to her and asked for the capacity to save the world. How arrogant a statement is that anyway? "Hi, give me the capacity to save the world." How do we know that her idea of the capacity to save the world isn't giving making him the direct enemy of Dalinar and the Radiants? Also, because of Odium's history with the other Shards, she just made him an enemy of any other Shards that may have a beef with Odium.

Definitely genius. I don't disagree with the fact that Taravangian is a more dangerous vessel for the Shard. But the Shards influence their vessels, and we don't know how the Shard of Odium will change Taravangian. Cultivation is playing the long game.

But like Hoid says, be wary of anyone who claims to be able to see the future. 

[cfphelps he/him]

On 12/24/2020 at 3:03 PM, WasingtheWhy said:

I think Brandon is considering Cultivation to have 3 plans. A plan, a backup plan, and an ace in the hole. Dalinar was plan one. She changed him first, before Gavilar's death. Taravangian was the backup plan. He was after Gavilar's death. Lift is the ace in the hole. 

Didn't Dalinar visit the Nightwatcher/Cultivation on the way to the shattered plains to avenge Gavilar's death? 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 24.12.2020 at 5:32 AM, Theoryspren said:

She has definitely made things worse by giving Taravangian the power of Odium, I am sure she thinks she did a great thing but it is terrible.

For whom? I am sorry, but this is rather simplistic. Cultivation is no naive altruist ready to sacrifice herself and her planet for some nebulous common good.

Setting Odium free means that if the rest of the Cosmere thinks that Odium should be fought, they are free to do so themselves, rather than put the burden on Roshar and Cultivation.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

I think she was too focused on combating Rayse. In his letter to Hoid, Harmony speculates that he should be more concerned about the Shard's intentions/ influence instead of the specific vessel. I think he's about to be proven right. 

[WasingtheWhy]

On 12/25/2020 at 4:46 PM, cfphelps said:

Didn't Dalinar visit the Nightwatcher/Cultivation on the way to the shattered plains to avenge Gavilar's death? 

Oh good lord. I can't believe I mixed that up. Talk about a gaff. I have literally been reading Oathbringer recently, too.

Still, the theory seems sound, as long as you take out my massive oops in terms of timeline. 

[+robardin he/him]

On 12/24/2020 at 2:07 AM, Aon Tia said:

I agree. Giving the power of Odium into the hands of an egotistical, megalomaniac, narcissistic, utilitarian moralist who can go to any lengths, world saviour wannabe, not to mention extremely intelligent human! What could go wrong!?

Yeah, well, do you imagine that a Shard like Cultivation somehow didn't know what Taravangian was like?

I mean, her entire plan to set up Taravangian to off Rayse and replace him as Odium - which she was prepared for as an outcome, where Mr. T himself was not at all - suggests maybe we're all underselling her here...

To recap: Taravangian had planned "two steps ahead" of Rayse, and also of us as readers until partway through Oathbringer, in that he had requested "enlightened" spren from Sja-anat to attract Odium's wrath at the right time when Szeth would be stoked to kill him, so as to be able to use Nightblood against Odium. But he had not imagined that that meant he would be Connected in such a way as to Ascend to Odium himself, which was a side effect of Cultivation's "curse" on his "boon". Whose "random" fluctuations between cold intelligence and weepy, passionate stupidity saw him at his stupidest and most emotional point ever, at exactly the right time where that would be optimal for him to Ascend.

So we're talking about a being - a Shard of Adonalisum with as much or more subtle use of Futurevision as any we've seen, at that -  who can see and plan at least THREE moves ahead, and we dare to presume she is blindsided by what is now possibly transpiring?

Sure, Vargodium is thinking to himself about his Ascension, "you have no idea what you've done". Doesn't mean Vargodium's right. Both Vessels of Odium are/were prone to overconfidence in their superiority and underestimation of others. And perhaps a dose of condescension is simply built into the nature of the Shard of Hatred.

By the way, I just realized how fulfilling this must feel to Cultivation - not in the sense of achieving a specific desired outcome, but of fulfilling the Shardic Intent. "All things must grow and change." Well, twiddling a old man into an bipolar cold genius/emotional wretch such that he goes from death's door to Ascending to Godhood, that's the ultimate in growing and changing, now isn't it?

Edited December 28, 2020 by robardin

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

On 12/23/2020 at 8:06 PM, Aon Tia said:

she has an ace up her sleeve with regard to you know what, you know who!!?

She has Jasnah up her sleeve. I'm sorry