Implications of the third pure tone

[Necessary Eagle]

For three books we've seen Odium as the foreign element that needs to be taken care of. Either defeated, or destroyed, or maybe he'll win this one and be free to go gallivanting off across the Cosmere on a new murder spree. Even Odium himself (or at least Odium 1.0) just wanted to get off Braize and go.

But RoW keeps emphasizing that Odium has been assimilated into Roshar. There are three pure tones. Timbre tells Venli that voidlight is no more intrinsically evil as a power source than stormlight. The titular Rhythm of War is created by harmonizing Odium's rhythm with Honor's. Over and over, we get shown that just as humans are now children of Roshar, Odium is a Rosharan god.

I don't know what the Stormlight endgame is going to be, but I no longer think winning entails getting rid of Odium. I think it will end with, Odium, whether Taravangian or some other Vessel, finding some less apocalyptic expression of his power and being recognized as a valid Shard of Roshar.

[Awakened Cremling]

Largely agreed. Unless Odium can somehow unravel his investiture from the Rosharan system he is pretty much locked there with or without whatever Honor did to bind him there. Maybe that is exactly his plan, if he doesn't care how much havoc doing so would cause then maybe it is possible. I could see Rayse doing so but Todium less so.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

I definitely the ending is gonna be on par with

[Mistborn spoilers]

Spoiler

two shards being merged to be held by one vessel. Not that specifically, necessarily, but something on the same scale of that. I've seen theories that Odium's intent will somehow be changed, for example

 

[NysemePtem]

I think Tod is more willing to Invest in Roshar. Rayse was always reluctant, scared to expose himself, determined to escape. He was willing to sacrifice his plans for conquest or severely impede them in the name of freedom. Tod seems more patient, more careful.

[+robardin]

On 12/4/2020 at 4:16 PM, Awakened Cremling said:

Largely agreed. Unless Odium can somehow unravel his investiture from the Rosharan system he is pretty much locked there with or without whatever Honor did to bind him there. Maybe that is exactly his plan, if he doesn't care how much havoc doing so would cause then maybe it is possible. I could see Rayse doing so but Todium less so.

The whole "This Shard of Hatred suits me perfectly, I don't want to be influenced by taking up another Shard so Imma splinter them all instead" attitude was a Rayse thing, wasn't it? I don't see that as being a Taravangian attitude at all.

So what if "Odium" is no more, because Taravangian sees a way to absorb Honor as well and become the Shard of War? And that Shard would be free of Roshar, because only "Odium" was bound to it... And by some act of Honor, no less.

[Awakened Cremling]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

The whole "This Shard of Hatred suits me perfectly, I don't want to be influenced by taking up another Shard so Imma splinter them all instead" attitude was a Rayse thing, wasn't it? I don't see that as being a Taravangian attitude at all.

So what if "Odium" is no more, because Taravangian sees a way to absorb Honor as well and become the Shard of War? And that Shard would be free of Roshar, because only "Odium" was bound to it... And by some act of Honor, no less.

I think there are two things tying Odium to the Rosharan system. 1st and most obvious, whatever Honor did to bind him. As you say, that can be overcome if he can get a Bondsmith to release him or can splinter/take up the shard. The 2nd way he is bound is less easy to overcome. Odiums has investiture throughout Roshar, the Unmade and Fused to name two obvious examples. If Taravangian took up Honor as well he'd add all of that investiture that is tied to Roshar as well, more strongly tying him to the system. As I said, maybe there is a way to withdraw/reintegrate the investiture but I imagine that would cause wide spread devastation. Maybe Taravangian could justify it for the "greater good" but I think he is less likely to be willing to do so than Rayse would have been.

[Lightdancer]

 

3 hours ago, robardin said:

So what if "Odium" is no more, because Taravangian sees a way to absorb Honor as well and become the Shard of War?

Interesting speculation. I would really like to see the shard of War. However, I don't think I want Taravangian to be the vessel... but I don't want him to hold Odium, either. Maybe becoming the shard of War would impose Honor on him and curtail some of his more villainous tendancies?

Alternative thought- Dalinar seems like a good fit for the shard of War. This isn't as true now as it was in the past, but Dalinar has been a terrifying warrior/tactician/leader. Depending on what his goals would be, I'd like him taking up that shard. (It does seem a little more suited to him than Honor, for instance.)

[mosaab]

brandon went out of his way to make sure that the ending of mistborn doesn't happen when he had odium shatter Honor, yet every one act like thats not an issue. you can bend over backward to make it happen but from a doylist perspective its just not happening.

 

[Frustration]

On 12/8/2020 at 8:13 AM, mosaab said:

brandon went out of his way to make sure that the ending of mistborn doesn't happen when he had odium shatter Honor, yet every one act like thats not an issue. you can bend over backward to make it happen but from a doylist perspective its just not happening.

 

What are you trying to say here?

[Bri-Y]

The issue I find with this is that from everything I remember reading from Rhythm of War implies that Odium the shard wants out of the system, to destroy all the other shards and/or their bearers. That was what was causing Rayse trouble, and his inability to follow his shard’s will made him weak and ultimately vulnerable to Nightblood.

This idea was supported by Harmony’s musings, and Taravangian’s insights after ascension. The shard wants out. It’s God’s anger manifested, and I believe it has a grudge on the people that caused said God to die.

Even if it’s somehow changed and combined with Honor and/or Cultivation, I don’t think that will change its purpose. War is still hatred, just more ordered and structured. And Cultivation and Hatred, or rather a desire for change and improvement and anger, sounds much like the idea of Revolution. It’s still angry at what it sees as oppression. Such as all the Shards ruling over their people.

So even if all three combine into War of Revolution, I don’t think it will want to stay on the Rosharan system. Perhaps it will be tempered by the other shards or be “locked” in by investing so much. But I still think the shard wants to get out.