Chinkoln he/him Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 Dalinar Kholin bonded the Stormfather, becoming one of the three Bondsmiths. Part of his oath was that he wouldn’t force the Stormfather into becoming a Shardblade, while another was that he would lead his forces to oppose Odium and defeat the Voidbringers. While in Vedenar, he felt Nergaoul, the Unmade that is commonly known as the Thrill. He recognized the Thrill and immediately ran away so that he wouldn’t fall under its influence. In order for him to escape he had to force the Stormfather into becoming a blade. Was Dalinar justified in forcing the Stormfather into becoming a blade? (For any curious, this question was sparked in my mind when the honorspren were questioning Adolin at his trial.)
Silverblade5 he/him Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 I'd say he was. For one thing, it wasn't for the purpose of combat, which I consider to be the operating spirit of the oath. For another, he didn't lose his bond, so it couldn't have been that bad.
Chinkoln he/him Posted December 3, 2020 Author Posted December 3, 2020 16 minutes ago, Silverblade5 said: I'd say he was. For one thing, it wasn't for the purpose of combat, which I consider to be the operating spirit of the oath. For another, he didn't lose his bond, so it couldn't have been that bad. Well, I was thinking along similar lines, but the major flaw with that is the words of one of the honorspren. They said that when Dalinar did that he broke his oaths and almost killed the Stormfather, which indicates it was worse than the humans had thought. And if you remember, after Dalinar did this the Stormfather was much more secluded for a time, which shows how much he got hurt and how offended he was.
NameIess Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 Dalinar never really made an oath not to summon the Stormfather as a blade, his oaths were (I'm ot 100% on the wording): "I will unite instead of divide" and "if I must fall, I will rise a better man". Yes, any oaths he makes will be binding, as he is a Bondsmith, but he hasn't made any relating to leading his forces to Odium's defeat or not summoning a Blade. 1
Chinkoln he/him Posted December 3, 2020 Author Posted December 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Ookla the Unnamable said: Yes, any oaths he makes will be binding, as he is a Bondsmith, but he hasn't made any relating to leading his forces to Odium's defeat or not summoning a Blade. Hasn’t he sworn (if not in a formal oath, at least in passing words) to his men and friends that he wouldn’t abandon them, and that he would stick with them throughout the coming war? Also, I feel like his personal ideals hold almost as much weight as a sworn oath, because of his station as Bondsmith.
NameIess Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 Just now, Chinkoln said: Hasn’t he sworn (if not in a formal oath, at least in passing words) to his men and friends that he wouldn’t abandon them, and that he would stick with them throughout the coming war? Also, I feel like his personal ideals hold almost as much weight as a sworn oath, because of his station as Bondsmith. I don't believe that non-formal oaths are binding. I do agree that Dalinar shouldn't have done what he did, but it wasn't a broken oath, simply something that hurt the Stormfather and was potentially very dangerous.
Nesh he/him Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 57 minutes ago, Chinkoln said: Well, I was thinking along similar lines, but the major flaw with that is the words of one of the honorspren. They said that when Dalinar did that he broke his oaths and almost killed the Stormfather, which indicates it was worse than the humans had thought. And if you remember, after Dalinar did this the Stormfather was much more secluded for a time, which shows how much he got hurt and how offended he was. I was under the impression that the near death of the stormfather came when Odium was trying to make Dalinar his champion. I could be wrong about that.
Leuthie Posted December 4, 2020 Posted December 4, 2020 He didn't form Stormfather into a Shardblade. It was basically a rod of light small enough to work the Oathgate. While it offended the Stormfather, there was no broken Oath there. There was a lot going on with Dalinar at that time and he ALMOST broke his Oaths and killed the Stormfather. However, his use of a Stormfather Shardrod (porn name?) didn't cause any damage. Stormfather is a spren and spren can form Shardblades. Stormfather just doesn't like it. 1
Darth_Hel Posted December 4, 2020 Posted December 4, 2020 The Stormfather might be different in that he's a Storm. He's very resistant to change and I'm not sure how much of that is personal resistance and how much of that is part of who he is and dangerous for him to change from. The Sibling or Stormfather forming into a Blade or Rod might actually be too much for them considering they're actually much more tied to specific locations and functions than other Spren.
IllNsickly he/him Posted December 4, 2020 Posted December 4, 2020 Dalinar has NEVER summoned the Stormfather as a blade. Perception matters. The Stormfather was only ever summoned by Dalinar to operate an Oathgate. Never as a weapon.
Chinkoln he/him Posted December 4, 2020 Author Posted December 4, 2020 11 hours ago, IllNsickly said: Dalinar has NEVER summoned the Stormfather as a blade. Perception matters. The Stormfather was only ever summoned by Dalinar to operate an Oathgate. Never as a weapon. If I make a hair comb and use it to stir soup, that comb is still a comb. Even if the Intent is for the comb to act as a spoon, the comb is technically a comb. The Stormfather was summoned as a blade but not used to kill.
Raven Wilder Posted December 5, 2020 Posted December 5, 2020 Did Dalinar ever actually swear not to summon the Stormfather as a Blade? As I recall, after they bonded, the Stormfather simply declared that he would not be summoned as a Blade, without any input from Dalinar on the subject. I think the issue with Dalinar summoning the Stormfather to work the Oathgate wasn't anything to do with a broken oath, but with summoning the Stormfather like that without his consent (with the Stormfather seeming surprised that that was even possible). 1
IllNsickly he/him Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 But the SF was never summoned as a Blade. The instances where we see Spren being summoned to operate an Oathgate, the form Shifts into whatever the mechanism needs to be in order for it to function. Lift does this with Wyndle and the closest thing to a weapon he has ever been was a Fork. Yes Dalinar summoned the SF’s physical manifestation, but not as any kind of a weapon and not for combat.
Nesh he/him Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 The closest thing I can remember to Dalinar swearing not to summon the Stormfather as a blade was at the end of Oathbringer when the Stormfather told Dalinar that he wouldn't use a blade (A Bondsmith thing?) and Dalinar went along with it
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