Why Jasna doesn’t have squires?

[Blackwarder]

Is it an elsecaller thing? A Jasna thing?

I don’t remember where I saw it but some of the orders don’t have squires. Could elsecallers be one of those?

[+Aletus he/him]

I'm not sure if they're a group without squires, but it kind of makes sense if you think about it. Her surges, especially when you look at it in the context of her flashback to Gavilar's death, can be abruptly terrifying and dangerous to use, even with a Spren to kinda talk you through what's going on. Losing squires into an ocean of beads in Shadesmar seems kinda counter productive to having a functioning order of Knights. 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

I think it's probably a Jasnah thing. Jasnah doesn't seem to have a lot of personal bonds outside family, and most of her family members have already been claimed by a spren. I don't remember all that's necessary for squires, but I feel odds are it requires some kind of (probably nonmagic) bond.

Edit: Wait, Skybreakers exist. Idk then. Probably her "I'm a bad teacher" thing means she hasn't been willing to take any, because she doesn't think she can teach them well enough.

Edited December 1, 2020 by beewall

[Subvisual Haze]

Squires kind of implies interning for a full Radiant position, but I believe Jasnah's spren is the sole Inkspren that is bonding at the moment.  What's more Ivory seems very reticent about interacting with any humans other than Jasnah.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

18 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Squires kind of implies interning for a full Radiant position, but I believe Jasnah's spren is the sole Inkspren that is bonding at the moment.  What's more Ivory seems very reticent about interacting with any humans other than Jasnah.

That's a good point about Ivory, his stance on those things might be part of how squiredom works.

[LordTheodore]

1 hour ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Squires kind of implies interning for a full Radiant position, but I believe Jasnah's spren is the sole Inkspren that is bonding at the moment.  What's more Ivory seems very reticent about interacting with any humans other than Jasnah.

We did see Windrunner squires when there were no more Honorspren willing to bond. I think the lack of Elsecaller squires might be due to Jasnah lacking a squad. Kaladin's squires came from the men he trained and led, as did Shallan's. If Jasnah had a ward or assistant working with her on research projects perhaps they would become a squire. Incidentally, we still haven't seen Truthwater, Edgedancer, Stoneward, Dustbringer or Bondsmith squires either.

[Watchcry he/him]

14 hours ago, LordTheodore said:

We did see Windrunner squires when there were no more Honorspren willing to bond. I think the lack of Elsecaller squires might be due to Jasnah lacking a squad. Kaladin's squires came from the men he trained and led, as did Shallan's. If Jasnah had a ward or assistant working with her on research projects perhaps they would become a squire. Incidentally, we still haven't seen Truthwater, Edgedancer, Stoneward, Dustbringer or Bondsmith squires either.

Not in present day but in past days we've seen Dustbringer Squires. 

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

We had the sibling mention bondsmith squires too I think? Which I thought was impossible but I guess not. So it may just be a personal thing

[Truthwatcher Artifabrian he/him]

On 12/1/2020 at 9:02 AM, LordTheodore said:

We did see Windrunner squires when there were no more Honorspren willing to bond. I think the lack of Elsecaller squires might be due to Jasnah lacking a squad. Kaladin's squires came from the men he trained and led, as did Shallan's. If Jasnah had a ward or assistant working with her on research projects perhaps they would become a squire. Incidentally, we still haven't seen Truthwater, Edgedancer, Stoneward, Dustbringer or Bondsmith squires either.

Assuming this is true, is Shallan proof that you  can’t be both a radiant and a squire in a different order?

[Seloun]

4 hours ago, Truthwatcher Artifabrian said:

Assuming this is true, is Shallan proof that you  can’t be both a radiant and a squire in a different order?

This is an interesting observation.

One thing that I've wondered about is why Shallan seems to have the geolocation Resonance, given that Lightweavers seem to have Memory as their Resonance (https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/93234-why-does-shallan-have-geolocation/). This seemed out of place since it appeared to be something Elsecallers had (Jasnah appears to exhibit it at the end of WoR) and none of the other Lightweavers are implied to possess it (Shallan's thoughts on it seem to suggest she's the only one). I initially suspected that Shallan might have somehow had a second bond with an Inkspren because of that passage.

However, it might make sense if Shallan is actually Jasnah's squire, as well. The main iffy part is that Shallan's geolocation appears to be working by the warcamps on the Shattered Plains, which should be well out of range if the effect is similar to the Windrunner squires. It's possible that the squire thing doesn't work that way with Elsecallers, given that each order's squires do seem to operate somewhat differently, or the Resonance remains even if their out of the range for sharing the bond.

 

[Truthwatcher Artifabrian he/him]

17 hours ago, Seloun said:

However, it might make sense if Shallan is actually Jasnah's squire, as well. The main iffy part is that Shallan's geolocation appears to be working by the warcamps on the Shattered Plains, which should be well out of range if the effect is similar to the Windrunner squires.

Maybe Shallan’s memory resonance allows her to create a sort of ‘memory’ of the geolocation resonance that she gets from Jasnah. This memory of the resonance let’s her use it while away from Jasnah, just like her normal memory ability lets her draw pictures of something while away from it.

 On second thought, I don’t think that’s true just because it’s way too far down the rabbit hole. I’m not even sure I agree that Shallan is Jasnah’s squire.

[Mardragon]

I think Shallan’s geolocation ability comes mainly from her own natural talents. Some people are just great  at finding their way around. Her memory snapshot ability proves that her memory is pretty formidable in some ways, which again is part of her natural ability. She appears to have a form of photographic memory. I’m sure her investiture may aid in that, but I don’t think it has anything to do with Jasnah.

Interesting thoughts concerning squires though. If Shallan hadn’t bonded with Pattern or

Spoiler

that other cryptic spren as a child, (by the way, wasn’t that a relevation?),

I do wonder if she would have become Jasnah’s squire, though.

Probably not, as being a squire usually leads to bonding a spren of your own and most inkspren aren’t interested,

Spoiler

although it looks like that is set to change.

I’m not certain on the mechanics on becoming a squire however. I have an idea it has something to do with a radiant investiture somehow spreading to people close to them. Jasnah never really gets that close to anyone, although Shallan was perhaps one of her closest associates for a time.

Spoiler

Even Wit who has gotten pretty close in this last book is still kept at arms length to some extent. Not in the literal physical sense, obviously, there seems to be a lot of intimacy behind the scenes/sheets/whatever.

What other factors lead to squires? Is it just the relationship between radiants  and their friends and followers, or does it require intent, from their spren? If intent is a factor, Ivory doesn’t strike me as the type to want to spread it about.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

2 hours ago, Mardragon said:

Probably not, as being a squire usually leads to bonding a spren of your own and most inkspren aren’t interested,

 

I don't think that's too much of a factor in whether someone can become a squire. There are still windrunner squires running around I believe, even when the honorspren weren't interested in bonding