Navani's Notebook Transliteration

[Palanaeum]

First post on this site, so let me know if I'm breaking any protocol.

I've attached all five pages of Navani's notebook, with the original text faded and the transliterated text over the top.  It's not a direct transliteration, though, I've also slightly translated it so that it reflects what was probably trying to be conveyed.  All capitalization and punctuation—aside from question marks and the starts of sentences—is my own interpretation of what was being said.  The scans were taken and edited by me.  If you want the original images or blank versions, hit me up and I can email them to you.

Some notes:

For sentences that end with question marks, there seems to be a precedent that the last word before the question mark has "ha" added to the end of it.  For example, the direct transliteration of the question at the end of Raboniel's first section on page 4 (the dagger page) is, "Why give into my enemys hands the means to destroy meha?"  This trend is consistent for the three examples present in these pages, and both Navani and Raboniel do it.  I'm not sure why this was added, as it seems random to add some cultural inflections and not others.  We know, for example, that there are many forms of the word "I" that are only differentiated in text and not in speech.  It seems confusing to add in this specific inflection because we have no context for it.  (It also almost drove me crazy the first time I came across it while transliterating lol.  Couldn't figure out what "meha" was referring to or if I was reading it wrong).

Another thing I noticed is that twice between these five pages, the person who wrote out the text used the letters for T and H in the word "the" instead of using the letter for TH.  So instead of (like everywhere else in the text) having it read [TH][E] with two letters, it reads [T][H][E] with three letters.  This is probably a mistake, but I find it exciting to find little things like that.

As far as I know, we don't know where the word "Arnist" comes from.  In the notebook, it refers to a strategy for trapping spren in gemstones by drawing out stormlight and creating a pressure differential (side note: I'm so happy we finally know explicitly how they get spren into gemstones!), so that might be referring some sort of artifabrian guild?

Also, the difference in Raboniel and Navani's handwriting is a great detail!  Once you really get down into the text and looking closely at their strokes, you can really see the difference in how they write.  Navani seems to go back over her text with a straightedge and enhance the straight line through her lettering, while Raboniel seems to just go for it without too much care for precision.  Makes for great immersion, but is hell on my brain when I'm trying to figure out what she's spelling!

If you find any mistakes or have a different way you interpreted the punctuation, let me know!  I'm interested in other people's thoughts on transliterating women's script.

Edited December 1, 2020 by sashiminaismith

[Honorless he/him]

Well done!

Maybe the "th" thing is based on sound. The "Th" sound in words like they, them, that, there is represented by "t" + "h" letters, while the "th" sound in words like thought, thanks, theatre, thermal is represented by the "th" letter.

[Serack he/him]

Many south eastern Asian languages end their sentences and questions with a syllable like this "ha" in the illustrations.  

I'm most familiar with Taiwanese because 20 years ago I played on an Everquest server that had a lot of Taiwanese players that even when typing in English, would end questions with "la?" and sentences with "lo."

edit:  also, thanks for the translation, I was really looking forward to an awesome fan like you doing this so I can read them.  

Edited December 1, 2020 by Serack

[Palanaeum]

7 hours ago, Serack said:

Many south eastern Asian languages end their sentences and questions with a syllable like this "ha" in the illustrations.  

I'm most familiar with Taiwanese because 20 years ago I played on an Everquest server that had a lot of Taiwanese players that even when typing in English, would end questions with "la?" and sentences with "lo."

That's a really interesting detail!  I wasn't aware that that was a thing in southern Asia.  That definitely seems like that's what it's emulating.  As far as you know, is it something that is spoken, or is it just written?

9 hours ago, Honorless said:

Maybe the "th" thing is based on sound. The "Th" sound in words like they, them, that, there is represented by "t" + "h" letters, while the "th" sound in words like thought, thanks, theatre, thermal is represented by the "th" letter.

That's an interesting thought, but throughout the text, the letter for TH is always used except for the two "the"s I mentioned.  "This" and "thing" are both spelled with the letter for TH.

[+Aletus he/him]

It's crazy to think in a relatively similarish timeframe, two Shardworlds develop very similar means of aviation. 

Or no. I mean. Investiture driven airships with propeller stabilzers, and escape pods. 

It's probably not at all possible that Mraize or Iyatil might have snuck Thaidakar the plans that he might have given to the people who worshipped him for saving them. Those plans then being adapted for a different system of investiture. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Arch1tect

[Palanaeum]

Mistborn era 1 and 2 spoilers

Spoiler

 

34 minutes ago, Arch1tect said:

It's probably not at all possible that Mraize or Iyatil might have snuck Thaidakar the plans that he might have given to the people who worshipped him for saving them. Those plans then being adapted for a different system of investiture. 

Holy crap.  I didn't think about that.  I think the timelines do match up for that theory, because era 2 happens around the break between stormlight 5 and 6, right?  And we know that Kelsier is looking for technology to hustle between planets.....

 

[+Aletus he/him]

Crazy right? 

[Serack he/him]

31 minutes ago, sashiminaismith said:

That's a really interesting detail!  I wasn't aware that that was a thing in southern Asia.  That definitely seems like that's what it's emulating.  As far as you know, is it something that is spoken, or is it just written?

I’m pretty sure it’s spoken.  I’ve been told it’s a feature of more than one language over there

[Knight of Iron she/they]

Wait—how was this translated? I’m confused.

[Gears]

6 hours ago, Palanaeum said:

That's a really interesting detail!  I wasn't aware that that was a thing in southern Asia.  That definitely seems like that's what it's emulating.  As far as you know, is it something that is spoken, or is it just written?

To make a statement a question (in Mandarin), one puts the particle 吗 (pronounced 'ma') at the end. It is both written and spoken. 

[Palanaeum]

27 minutes ago, Ookla the Knight said:

Wait—how was this translated? I’m confused.

 

Each symbol correlates to a letter or sound (there are single letters that represent SH CH and TH).  Going through letter by letter gives he transliteration, though—as I was talking about before—there arent any punctuation marks (other than question marks and the line at the beginning of each sentence that denotes the maximum height of the letters).

[Knight of Iron she/they]

Just now, Palanaeum said:

 

Each symbol correlates to a letter or sound (there are single letters that represent SH CH and TH).  Going through letter by letter gives he transliteration, though—as I was talking about before—there arent any punctuation marks (other than question marks and the line at the beginning of each sentence that denotes the maximum height of the letters).

very cool! I didn't know we could correlate it all to letters/sounds like that.

[Palanaeum]

5 hours ago, Serack said:

I’m pretty sure it’s spoken.  I’ve been told it’s a feature of more than one language over there

 

26 minutes ago, Gears said:

To make a statement a question (in Mandarin), one puts the particle 吗 (pronounced 'ma') at the end. It is both written and spoken. 

Thanks!  I think that's a cool detail for them to put in, especially since we know the Alethi are partially based on asian cultures.

[R.Ag]

@Palanaeum I am from Taiwan. I think 'ha' in Alethi is similar to 呢(ne) in Mandarin, which conveys wondering.

Those words are called "Auxiliary word." (I used google to translate the word.Hope it is right.)

Auxiliary word usually put in the last word of a sentence and is used for conveying or emphasizing emotion in Mandarin and Taiwanese. The word itself doesn't have any meaning.

We both write and speak auxiliary words.

For example, we can use 啊(a) to emphasize that sentence is important, 嗎(ma) for asking question, 吧(ba) for conveying uncertain, 囉(lo) to emphasize the situation in that sentence.

 (I've tried my best to explan those words in English, but be aware to that sometimes we still need to comprehend other sentences in the conversation to get the right meaning for auxiliary word.)

By the way, Taiwanese people Really Really likes to use auxiliary words.We can have a conversation with over 80% sentences end with an auxiliary word. Although sometimes it is just too much and annoyed.

[Palanaeum]

1 minute ago, R.Ag said:

I think 'ha' in Alethi is similar to 呢(ne) in Mandarin, which conveys wondering.

Those words are called "Auxiliary word." (I used google to translate the word.Hope it is right.)

Auxiliary word usually put in the last word of a sentence and is used for conveying or emphasizing emotion in Mandarin and Taiwanese. The word itself doesn't have any meaning.

We both write and speak auxiliary words.

For example, we can use 啊(a) to emphasize that sentence is important, 嗎(ma) for asking question, 吧(ba) for conveying uncertain, 囉(lo) to emphasize the situation in that sentence.

Thanks for the info!  I am glad there is a pattern to this in the real world, because when I was first transliterating it, I thought maybe I was reading it wrong

[Kinolee]

Just wanted to pop in and post the translations I made.  I attached them all to this post -- two versions, one is my interpretation, and the other is a direct translation (errors and all).

On 12/1/2020 at 4:50 AM, Palanaeum said:

If you find any mistakes or have a different way you interpreted the punctuation, let me know!  I'm interested in other people's thoughts on transliterating women's script.

@Palanaeum I think I found only two errors in your translations:

• On pg. 1 (Fourth Bridge) you have "levers" where it should be "levels"

• On pg.2 (Arnist Method) you are missing the "eye" in "eyebolts"

Other than that, I think we agree!  Personally, I don't subscribe to the theory that the height marker at the beginning of some lines is punctuation like some people, and you hear, believe.  If this mark is truly a "period" that goes at the beginning of the sentence instead of the end, then there are just way too many run-on sentences in most script I've seen.  Not to mention, we see here the use of question marks, which go at the end of sentences, and so why should other types of Women's Script punctuation be different?  I think the height marker is just something that someone writes every time they begin writing anew after picking up the pen or taking a break, etc.  To keep the heights of the characters consistent.  So the translations I've done add in some periods and start new sentences where yours doesn't.  Overall, I think the meaning is the same.

 

 

[Harakeke]

 

On 12/1/2020 at 2:50 AM, Palanaeum said:

For sentences that end with question marks, there seems to be a precedent that the last word before the question mark has "ha" added to the end of it.  For example, the direct transliteration of the question at the end of Raboniel's first section on page 4 (the dagger page) is, "Why give into my enemys hands the means to destroy meha?"  This trend is consistent for the three examples present in these pages, and both Navani and Raboniel do it. 

 

On 12/2/2020 at 0:19 AM, R.Ag said:

@Palanaeum I am from Taiwan. I think 'ha' in Alethi is similar to 呢(ne) in Mandarin, which conveys wondering.

Those words are called "Auxiliary word." (I used google to translate the word.Hope it is right.)

Nice catch! I just assumed Raboniel was adding some wry laughter from her internal monologue, but this makes much more sense.
The interrogative auxiliary word also shows up in the Ship Designs notebook page from Oathbringer: 
"Too fanciful, ha?"

On 12/6/2020 at 6:52 PM, Kinolee said:

Not to mention, we see here the use of question marks, which go at the end of sentences, and so why should other types of Women's Script punctuation be different?

I think the ? symbol is one of Nazh's annotations. The "handwriting" style matches his other notes.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Harakeke

[Weltall]

Since the topic's active again, I'll throw in that Raboniel's sentence endings is also a thing in (both spoken and written) Japanese. There are syllables that you can add to the end of a sentence to do things like turn it into an explicit or rhetorical question, or to function as the equivalent of an exclamation point, or to express politeness or informality or... you get the idea. Brandon may have initially picked up the idea from Korean, which he learned while he was a missionary and which (per my limited knowledge) has a similar way of changing the function of words and sentences via suffixes.

Brandon also draws a lot on Hebrew in SA which might have influenced Alethi grammar as well as names.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Weltall

[Kyn]

2 hours ago, Weltall said:

Brandon may have initially picked up the idea from Korean, which he learned while he was a missionary and which (per my limited knowledge) has a similar way of changing the function of words and sentences via suffixes.

Yup, Korean has interrogative auxiliary words, too. In addition to an actual question verbal form (more than one version, especially depending on politeness level) that essentially turns sentences into questions, there are a few ways to essentially tack “is it not?” or “is it” onto words.

[Harakeke]

Seems like a recurring linguistic theme, sule. The Duladen language on Sel also uses auxilary words, kolo?

[LewsTherinTelescope]

13 hours ago, Harakeke said:

The Duladen language on Sel also uses auxilary words, kolo?

Basically a stereotypical Canadian, eh?