Taravangian's boon and Cultivation's plan

[danox46 he/him]

I just finished my first read. I wanted to give it a second before commenting on most points. But I can't wait for this one XD.

"the capacity to save humankind." https://coppermind.net/wiki/Taravangian

The twist where "Stupid" Taravangian would play a fundamental role in Ryse's defeat was expected. Now, Taravangian taking Odium's power I didn't see coming at all (wondering if there were more references like him attacking a lot of spren when "stupid" in previous books). However, that opens up a #@*load of new possibilities. What's Cultivation's deal? I assumed it was a way to stop odium. Now, with the power of Odium as part of the plan... I'm starting to think something much worse than the final desolation is coming. 

When Teravangian asked for the capacity to save "humankind" I'm starting to think that Cultivation took that a little bit farther than Rosharan humans.

Cultivation's game is becoming dangerous, having affected the powers of Honor and Odium directly. However, the more I think about it, the more I see Cultivation wanting of Roshar too. I've never been able to get the "we killed you" statement Odium made on Oathbringer. I'm starting to believe Cultivation want's to "Grow" past Roshar.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

Cultivation as the bad guy would be awesome.

[Karger he/him]

I think she is basically checking to see if anyone can control Odium's power well enough for it to be worth it.

[Storyspren]

I like this because to save humankind everywhere, you would need at least the power of a shard. At minimum. So it does make sense. We will have to see whether Todium still has compassion/intellect variance of any kind and how that meshes with the Odium shard moving forward.

[Raven Wilder]

Odium's stated goal for Roshar, using the planet to create the ultimate army of hardened soldiers, is something that could actually align pretty well with Cultivation's Intent: it's cultivating an entire people to be the best they can be (at killing and conquest, but still). Problem is, Odium was blowing it. Rather than getting tougher with each battle, the Fused just become more and more broken. And by the end, he was willing to give up on Roshar entirely, to head off for greener pastures and never have to deal with this quagmire of a planet again. So maybe Cultivation has no problem with what Odium is trying to do, but felt like Rayse needed to be replaced as Vessel to make that happen.

[Leuthie]

Connections. Cultivation now has a direct Connection with the Vessel of the third Shard on Roshar. Connections mean a lot. She also has a Connection to Dalinar, the closest to becoming a Vessel for Honor.

The why is really impossible to answer without knowing her state of mind. Per her Shard's Intent, there has to be some preparation for growth involved. She gave Dalinar the room he needed to grow. She provided Mr. T with the tools to put him in a position to threaten Odium. Nightwatcher hinted that Nightblood was in her control by offering it to Dalinar. She may have even nudged Nale to give the thing to Szeth; the only tool that could kill a god given into the hands of someone that Mr. T could manipulate into using it.

So she "pruned" Rayse. Who the Shard went to was probably a secondary consideration. Her Intent wouldn't allow her to scheme a way to splinter Odium, so killing its Vessel would be her only play. Creating Connections to the new Vessels allows her to play some part in their development.

I can see her being set up as a surprise secondary antagonist in Book 5. However, she has set up Connections to at least two of our protagonists. One has a book in the second 5 and the other is carrying Honor. And any actions she undertakes toward being an antagonist would be tempered by her need to create growth, so it would be difficult for Brandon to make her a true "bad guy".

Book 4 heavily prepared for bringing humans and singers together. THAT is probably Cultivation's primary plan.

[Silarn]

My initial read was that Cultivation's plan was to at the very least have T take out Rayse, but also attempt to groom him to be a more 'responsible' holder of Odium that wouldn't be bent purely on domination were he to take up the Shard.

Now, I do think it's likely we haven't seen all of the fruits of her planning. There may well be more to Lift than we currently know, though her being able to survive the inversion of the Sibling was at least part of that plan. She says herself that she can merely guide/influence people on their path and hope that it leads them to the desired outcome.

However, we also have evidence that she may have gambled poorly on T as well. Even as she lays out her hopes for him as Odium, he begins plotting. "You have no idea what you have done." Sure, he claims he's going to "save them all," but we know he's got a twisted view as to what that means and what that entails. In his conversations with Dalinar, even in his 'passionate' state, he believes he's only done evil in the name of a greater future good. And yet, even if you can acknowledge his Machiavellian point of view, he also ended up putting himself in greater power and influence in the process. And Dalinar wonders how fully altruistic his motives actually were.

Beyond that, even, we know that Harmony has great doubt as to how much that a Vessel can resist the Intent of their Shard and that Rayse was having great difficulty fighting against the destructive passion of Odium. Can T really do better - if he even wants to?

There are also the epitaphs of Part 5. How much do Taravangian's ideas align with those El seems to profess? I'd guess he's not far off.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Silarn