Why does Regrowth work during suppression?

[Jon]

1 hour ago, Elegy said:

That is a good thought, but then the surges don't add up. If Lightweaving is the primary surge for Lightweavers and Progression, like you suggest, the primary surge for Edgedancers, then there's nothing left for the Truthwatchers in between. And if Edgedancers have Progression and Windrunners Adhesion, you have three surges left between them (Gravitation, Division, Abrasion) but only two Orders (Skybreakers and Dustbringers).

Ya that occurred to me after I wrote that. It doesn't really hold up that each order has a unique primary surge, but I still wonder if there is a defined progression to which they master the surges. It does seem like windrunners gain adhesion before gravitation, and skybreakers get gravitation before division. Maybe its just a simple as them starting with the less dangerous surge.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

10 minutes ago, Jon said:

Ya that occurred to me after I wrote that. It doesn't really hold up that each order has a unique primary surge, but I still wonder if there is a defined progression to which they master the surges. It does seem like windrunners gain adhesion before gravitation, and skybreakers get gravitation before division. Maybe its just a simple as them starting with the less dangerous surge.

From the sound of it, Division is gated for both its orders, and iirc Shallan has to hit the Third Ideal before she can Soulcast at will. I imagine the former might be a restriction by Honor (which might mean it no longer holds, and is just the Skybreakers choosing to not use or teach it earlier), latter is probably just that going to Shadesmar is hard and requires a stronger bond to do. Could relate to the amount of Stormlight used as well - maybe Kaladin just couldn't take in enough Light to fuel a proper Basic Lashing yet.

[Elegy he/him]

23 minutes ago, Jon said:

Ya that occurred to me after I wrote that. It doesn't really hold up that each order has a unique primary surge, but I still wonder if there is a defined progression to which they master the surges. It does seem like windrunners gain adhesion before gravitation, and skybreakers get gravitation before division. Maybe its just a simple as them starting with the less dangerous surge.

Yeah, that's international, Brandon basically confirmed that much:

Quote

Overlord Jebus

So I've noticed a pattern in the way that the Radiants learn their surges. They seem to learn their anti-clockwise surge before their clockwise surge?

Brandon Sanderson

They do.

Overlord Jebus

Excellent, everyone thought I was a crazy person!

Brandon Sanderson

They do tend to-- Now, I'm gonna give you some behind the sausage stuff on that. That is partially for writing expediency reasons.

Overlord Jebus

How do you mean?

Brandon Sanderson

I designed that partially because I didn't want to overwhelm people with too many magic systems at once so I came up with a little bit of a pattern so that I could have a little bit of an in-world reason why we were slowing that down. It's not a hard fast rule, it's something that I've kept to in order to not overwhelm readers so it's more of form following function than the other way around.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

Seems to be mostly because it's more convenient narratively, but he does call it an "in-world reason"

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

8 hours ago, Elithanathile10 said:

As others have said, I'm of the opinion that Lift was sufficiently changed by Cultivation so as not to be affected by the Sibling's defenses being inverted. Her use of Lifelight is potentially unique throughout all of Rosharian history and so was not taken into account by Raboniel. While progression is clearly a Surge that is more closely aligned with Cultivation, I think it's more important that Lift's Surges are powered through Lifelight.

I don't think people are questioning why Lift wasn't affected by the fabrial the same way everyone else was. We know there's something different about her and her connection to Cultivation. What we're wondering is why one of her surges works but not the other. Cause that seems to indicate that there's something different about that surge, even if for most non-Lift radiants that wouldn't (necessarily) mean they could use it under the suppression.

[Jon]

14 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Yeah, that's international, Brandon basically confirmed that much:

Seems to be mostly because it's more convenient narratively, but he does call it an "in-world reason"

Ah good to know. Thanks for digging up that WoB.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Meh, my take on this is that Odium's just lying to the Fused to avoid giving them Connection powers, which he doesn't want to give them. I think he's probably fully capable of granting it if he wants to.

I think he could only do it once he started becoming fully Invested in Roshar and one of his Unmade (BAM) began to become his Bondsmith Spren. So we can’t have an Adhesion Fused until BAM is free...

[Rorzikel]

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Meh, my take on this is that Odium's just lying to the Fused to avoid giving them Connection powers, which he doesn't want to give them. I think he's probably fully capable of granting it if he wants to.

I'd buy it if it was just the fused not getting powers but Adhesion is clearly special to Stormlight abilities and resilient against Void-based attacks. The Sibling also says that they believe Kal is staying awake because of his closeness to Adhesion. It can't just be propaganda and I don't believe Rayse would withhold the relative power of Adhesion if it was a useful tool. Not giving them Bondsmith powers I could see, but fused are single surge surgebinders, they shouldn't be making perps or pulling Ishar type moves.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

14 minutes ago, MyrmidonOfAchilles said:

The Sibling also says that they believe Kal is staying awake because of his closeness to Adhesion. It can't just be propaganda

I think Adhesion being more of Honor is true. I just also think it doesn't actually matter when it comes to Odium granting it. Remember, there's the whole "Ruin and Preservation could both fuel all three Metallic Arts" thing, a Shard can grant another Shard's magic if they want.

17 minutes ago, MyrmidonOfAchilles said:

I don't believe Rayse would withhold the relative power of Adhesion if it was a useful tool.

It doesn't grant enough power for Rayse to risk people breaking free of his control, imo. He doesn't want weary Fused disobeying him or even defecting.

18 minutes ago, MyrmidonOfAchilles said:

fused are single surge surgebinders, they shouldn't be making perps or pulling Ishar type moves.

Probably no Perp, sure, but the Fused tend to be more skilled with their Surges than Radiants, so....

[Rorzikel]

1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I think Adhesion being more of Honor is true. I just also think it doesn't actually matter when it comes to Odium granting it. Remember, there's the whole "Ruin and Preservation could both fuel all three Metallic Arts" thing, a Shard can grant another Shard's magic if they want.

I think Ruin being far more invested in Scadrial than Odium is on Roshar would be relevant.

2 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

It doesn't grant enough power for Rayse to risk people breaking free of his control, imo. He doesn't want weary Fused disobeying him or even defecting.

I'm unsure if it would let them do so, or at least anymore than whatever application of Transformation Raboniel had.

2 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Probably no Perp, sure, but the Fused tend to be more skilled with their Surges than Radiants, so....

Adhesion is cool but I think it's somewhat neutered on it's own or with a less potent surge like gravitation.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

8 minutes ago, MyrmidonOfAchilles said:

I think Ruin being far more invested in Scadrial than Odium is on Roshar would be relevant.

Well, there's also this WoB, then:

Spoiler

Chaos

Allomancy provides many very dramatic effects, which some have noted is not very much like Preservation. Could you walk me through how Allomancy is of Preservation, though it does dramatic, dynamic things?

Brandon Sanderson

One of the 'basics' of the magic in all of the worlds is that the energy of Shards can fuel all kinds of interactions, not just interactions based on their personality/role. I did this because otherwise, the Magics would all be extremely limited.

The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do. So, in Preservation's case, the magic is a gift--allowing a person to preserve their own strength, and rely upon the strength granted by the magic. While Hemalurgy has a huge cost, ending in net entropy.

/r/fantasy AMA 2011 (Aug. 31, 2011)

Shards can fuel any effect. It being very Honory should not prevent Odium from fueling a similar effect.

8 minutes ago, MyrmidonOfAchilles said:

I'm unsure if it would let them do so, or at least anymore than whatever application of Transformation Raboniel had.

Manipulation of Connection is a very dangerous thing for a Shard whose main threat has to do with the fact he fuels them via a Connection to grant. Even if it's unlikely, why even take the risk?

10 minutes ago, MyrmidonOfAchilles said:

Adhesion is cool but I think it's somewhat neutered on it's own or with a less potent surge like gravitation.

I would say Connection is far scarier than most of the other powers.

[Raven Wilder]

I wouldn't be surprised if everyone on Roshar is infused with at least a little stormlight. They might not hold it as well as gemstones do, but they do still live on a planet where huge amounts of Investiture rain from the sky every few days. It's not enough stormlight to be useful most of the time, but it's still there; like how on Scadrial, even people who aren't Allomancers or Feruchemists have a little extra Preservation in them. So when Lift uses her Surges, the bulk of the power may be coming from Lifelight, but that doesn't mean there's not a little stormlight in the mix, too.

[gremlin303]

Just want to add to the discussion as I have seen a couple of people wondering about progression fused.

we have seen them twice now. First time at the battle of Thaylen Field and the second time when Jasnah is fighting on the frontlines in Emul. They appear to use the surge to grow their carapace into whatever they want, shardplate-like armour, weapons, etc.

[Dunkum he/him]

One ting to add here that I didn't see mentioned: When Raboniel and Navani discuss how they people of Urithiru have been using Stormlight to make the crops grow, Raboniel mentions that Lifelight actually works better.  it seems reasonable then that lifelight would probably be a better fuel for progression as well, so that might be part of what allows Lift to push past the supression, in addition to some or all of the other things mentioned.