Prediction on Kal's 4th oath

[Awakened Cremling]

1 hour ago, Lidolas said:

 

I like this idea.  Something along the lines of respecting the choices others make.  "I will let others make sacrifices"  or maybe even "I will let myself be saved by others"

I was thinking something very similar. Not sure of how the words will be conveyed but something along the lines of thinking everything is his fault is actually being selfish. That others have agency. I think we got a small preview of that in the scene where Laral made clear she didn't want or need to be "saved" from her marriage.

[dionysus]

I definitely agree with the consensus on what is holding him back, but I want to work in leadership as well. When I try to put all my thoughts on what the 4th ideal should be on paper I end up with a paragraph, which is not good writing. The best, most succinct statement I can come up with is something like this, "I will honor those who fall, by protecting those that need it and leading those that do not (need protection.)" But it doesn't capture what my full thoughts are.

Edited November 7, 2020 by dionysus

[Storyspren]

Even as a surgeon Kal had a problem learning to let a patient go. This has been coming forever. Not everything can be a shock twist.

[Schneeente]

So I think most people here are in agreement that he can only swear the ideal if he is willing to "give up" a person's life and is not actively trying to save the person.

That leads us to the question: Which person is dying (or in mortal danger) at the time Kaladin swears his 4th oath? I think a member of his family would make is oath super powerful.... but it also seems so very unlikely that he is "strong enough" to do it in that case. 

[Master Silver]

1 hour ago, Schneeente said:

So I think most people here are in agreement that he can only swear the ideal if he is willing to "give up" a person's life and is not actively trying to save the person.

That leads us to the question: Which person is dying (or in mortal danger) at the time Kaladin swears his 4th oath? I think a member of his family would make is oath super powerful.... but it also seems so very unlikely that he is "strong enough" to do it in that case. 

So the one person that I can see having a strong enough influence to get Kaladin to let her go or sacrifice herself is Kaladin's mother. As others have said, I think Kaladin will be with his family when the attack happens and he will be fighting desperately to save them, but it is either them or the tower. His mom says, Kaladin let us go, go save the the tower. With tears flowing down his face he let's them go, and swears the fourth ideal. Saves the Tower, and (if Brandon wants to be kind to us for a change), Learin and Hesinah both swear the first ideal (of different orders of course) and they all live happily ever after. 

[Aglaia]

1 hour ago, Schneeente said:

So I think most people here are in agreement that he can only swear the ideal if he is willing to "give up" a person's life and is not actively trying to save the person.

That leads us to the question: Which person is dying (or in mortal danger) at the time Kaladin swears his 4th oath? I think a member of his family would make is oath super powerful.... but it also seems so very unlikely that he is "strong enough" to do it in that case. 

While that sounds likely to me, I think that doesn't have to be the case.
Another possibility is that he may have to kill, or at least fight against, someone he believes he should protect.

 

Fortunately we have an option that isn't that sad (at least for most of us): In chapter 8 he thinks about Moash: “Moash wasn't just a friend though. He was beyond that a member of Bridge Four. Kaladin had sworn to the storms and the heavens above — if anyone was there watching — that he’d protect those men. Kaladin had failed Moash.”

 

If the oath, as already assumed here, goes in the direction of " agency of others"( as Subvisual Haze speculated), that would fit. Moash decided against Bridge 4 and went to Odium's side. Kaladin could have reacted a lot better in WoR, but Moash decided for himself to continue with the assassination attempt and everything after that.

.

But I don't know whether this solution is too predictable(i.e. Kaladin/ Moash fight)?

[earthexile]

"I will bear the burden of sending my soldiers to their deaths for the greater goal."

Windrunners are a military order, and the natural progression of a great soldier is to become an officer and a leader. That's why their resonance to to amass large groups of squires. There is a balance that a war leader must strike, between saving lives and spending them. That's the essence of Kaladin's struggle, as I see it. His Windrunners may have started as "Those who cannot protect themselves," but they aren't that anymore. They're superheroes now. It's no longer Kaladin's job to protect those men, he needs to make peace with leading them into danger.

[Destrus]

I think the Fourth Oath is going to be something to the effect of:

“I will protect those who mean me harm, as long as it is right.” 
 

And be related to Moash/Vyre  

or possibly 

“I will protect myself, because I cannot protect others without protecting myself” and have it tied to his inability to come to terms with his depression and his demotion  

 

[Rainier]

On 11/8/2020 at 10:54 AM, earthexile said:

"I will bear the burden of sending my soldiers to their deaths for the greater goal."

Windrunners are a military order, and the natural progression of a great soldier is to become an officer and a leader. That's why their resonance to to amass large groups of squires. There is a balance that a war leader must strike, between saving lives and spending them. That's the essence of Kaladin's struggle, as I see it. His Windrunners may have started as "Those who cannot protect themselves," but they aren't that anymore. They're superheroes now. It's no longer Kaladin's job to protect those men, he needs to make peace with leading them into danger.

"I will let others die in my place."

I'm with you on this one. The first two oaths were about protecting. Now it's time for Kaladin to worry less about protecting and more about leading. Leadership requires you to send people to their deaths, or at least leadership of a military order during a war. Kaladin in completely unwilling to let people die.

I think he needed to be willing to let Adolin die in order to swear his fourth oath, and he couldn't bring himself to do so.

[Lemiltock]

9 hours ago, Rainier said:

"I will let others die in my place."

I'm with you on this one. The first two oaths were about protecting. Now it's time for Kaladin to worry less about protecting and more about leading. Leadership requires you to send people to their deaths, or at least leadership of a military order during a war. Kaladin in completely unwilling to let people die.

I think he needed to be willing to let Adolin die in order to swear his fourth oath, and he couldn't bring himself to do so.

As detailed in my previous post i dont see it focusing on leadership.

I do see Kaladins development pushing towards letting go when others choice to put hemselves in danger (even Vasher makes not of this) and this fits with the gem archive message of wanting to protect everyone. Im not sure the wording it will take but think it will be along the triage lines of protecting those he can.