Imperial Nomic: The Shattered Plains

[Aspiring Writer]

Just now, xinoehp512 said:

Anti-Secrecy Law: All rule approval/disapprovals, title appointments, sphere transactions, or other alterations to the state of the game must be posted in the thread to be legally binding. This rule applies retroactively.

Approved

[Aspiring Writer]

3 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

The Rule of Typos: If a rule contains a spelling or grammatical error, the King may correct it.

Approved

3 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

The Regent: The King must select someone to become a Regent and must always have a Regent at all times. He may change who is Regent whenever he chooses to. If the King is aware he will be unavailable or absent for longer than three days, he must announce and appoint the Regent during his absence, stating "I appoint the current Regent to take over my position during my absence of (insert predicted number of days)." while tagging the Regent, who will take over the duties of the King until they return. Once the King returns, he must state "I have returned and will be taking back my power" while tagging the Regent in power. If the King is absent for more than five days, the chosen Regent will automatically take over until his return. The King can reject any rules that the Regent approves in his absence upon his return, and vice versa. He may also change either declaration to one of obsolescence. The Regent has no other powers other than taking over for the King. 

Responsibilities of thThe Regent will have include all of the privileges, responsibilities, and limitations of the King while serving as a replacement, as well as keeping track of all proposals and amendments and whether or not they approved or rejected them for the king upon their return. Failure to do so will culminate in a fine of five spheres per proposal and amendment not kept track of. The Regent must also announce a replacement in the case he also is made unavailable, where that person will become the Temporary Regent until either the Regent or King has returned. Temporary Regent has all the powers and responsibilities of the Regent upon the Regent's absence. If a Regent and a Temporary Regent are both not chosen or available, the players can vote a Voted-Regent into place. The Voted-Regent will carry all the responsibilities of the Regent and can keep power even if the chosen Temporary Regent returns, though they must give back power once the Regent or King returns.

The Regent, Temporary Regent, and Voted Regent cannot earn spheres in their time in power but will be given ten spheres for each day of keeping track of proposals upon the King's return. Every proposal that Regent, Temporary Regent approves and the King rejects or vice versa will result in a fine of one sphere per proposal. The King can decide to offer more or fewer spheres to the Regents for their time in power and can mitigate the one sphere fine, but cannot increase the fine.

Approved

[Aspiring Writer]

On 10/28/2020 at 10:47 PM, Experience said:

 Rule of Affiliation: Players may affiliate themselves with one of the ten princedoms: Aladar, Bethab, Hatham, Kholin, Roion, Ruthar, Sebarial, Thanadal, and Vamah. Affiliations must be posted in blue. The first player to affiliate with a princedom will be the highprince, and each person affiliating afterwards will be next on the succession list. Should the highprince be removed for any reason, the person at the top of the seniority list will become highprince.

@HoidWasTaken It says an affiliate with one, never says whether or not you can move, so while not illegal, it also isn't possible currently. If you wish to move, make a proposal or amendment saying you can.

[Chasmgoat he/him]

If the timing of the post was before you approved that one law, then Hoid wins, correct?

[xinoehp512 he/him]

I will make a proposal suggestion to my amendment of the Rule of Affiliation: Players may affiliate themselves with one of the ten princedoms: Aladar, Bethab, Hatham, Kholin, Roion, Ruthar, Sebarial, Thanadal, and Vamah. Affiliations must be posted in blue. If a player affiliates more than once, only the most recent affiliation will be counted- any positions or privileges tied to previous affiliations will be revoked. The first player to affiliate with a princedom will be the highprince, and each person affiliating afterwards will be next on the succession list. Should the highprince be removed for any reason, the person at the top of the seniority list will become highprince 

[Guest Somebody from Scadrial]

I would like to redact Law of Job Providers: until somebody can come up with a less loophole filled version which can be posted in two days time

[Aspiring Writer]

1 hour ago, xinoehp512 said:

Rule of Affiliation: Players may affiliate themselves with one of the ten princedoms: Aladar, Bethab, Hatham, Kholin, Roion, Ruthar, Sebarial, Thanadal, and Vamah. Affiliations must be posted in blue. If a player affiliates more than once, only the most recent affiliation will be counted- any positions or privileges tied to previous affiliations will be revoked. The first player to affiliate with a princedom will be the highprince, and each person affiliating afterwards will be next on the succession list. Should the highprince be removed for any reason, the person at the top of the seniority list will become highprince 

amend this that they need the permission of both the high prince they are affiliating with and the king or Regent, whichever is in power.

@Somebody from Sel

Quote

I would like to redact Law of Job Providers: until somebody can come up with a less loophole filled version which can be posted in two days time

Approved

Quote

If the timing of the post was before you approved that one law, then Hoid wins, correct?

If we can definitely say that it was done before, then it will open the discussion on whether not Hoid was allowed to change, which currently appears that will not be the case. So most likely, Hoid has not won.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Aspiring Writer

[Chasmgoat he/him]

finally! I was not able to take a screenshot before since both posts were within the same hour and they both said "posted x hours ago"

Spoiler

 

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Also, since the anti-secrecy law applies retroactively, the law that would have allowed you to win no longer did. 

Alright, I will make a proposal amendment to Rule of Affiliation: Players may affiliate themselves with one of the ten princedoms: Aladar, Bethab, Hatham, Kholin, Roion, Ruthar, Sebarial, Thanadal, and Vamah. Affiliations must be posted in blue. If a player affiliates more than once, only the most recent affiliation will be counted- any positions or privileges tied to previous affiliations will be revoked. The first player to affiliate with a princedom will be the highprince, and each person affiliating afterwards must have their affiliations approved by the highprince in order to count. They will also be placed on the succession list. Should the highprince be removed for any reason, the person at the top of the seniority list will become highprince. 

Also, it seems you don't need to have less spheres to race for the gemheart now, so I will do that and claim five spheres for doing so.

[Chasmgoat he/him]

4 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Also, since the anti-secrecy law applies retroactively, the law that would have allowed you to win no longer did. 

Alright, I will make a proposal amendment to Rule of Affiliation: Players may affiliate themselves with one of the ten princedoms: Aladar, Bethab, Hatham, Kholin, Roion, Ruthar, Sebarial, Thanadal, and Vamah. Affiliations must be posted in blue. If a player affiliates more than once, only the most recent affiliation will be counted- any positions or privileges tied to previous affiliations will be revoked. The first player to affiliate with a princedom will be the highprince, and each person affiliating afterwards must have their affiliations approved by the highprince in order to count. They will also be placed on the succession list. Should the highprince be removed for any reason, the person at the top of the seniority list will become highprince. 

Also, it seems you don't need to have less spheres to race for the gemheart now, so I will do that and claim five spheres for doing so.

Wait, the law was applied before it even became retroactive. So, if a law were passed saying laws are retroactive and one law immediately is passed and stops one of the first laws it completely messes up the game! Besides, I never got close to winning, it was hoidwastaken.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

I propose an amendment to  The Regent: The King must select someone to become a Regent and must always have a Regent at all times. He may change who is Regent whenever he chooses to. If the King is aware he will be unavailable or absent for longer than three days, he must announce and appoint the Regent during his absence, stating "I appoint the current Regent to take over my position during my absence of (insert predicted number of days)." while tagging the Regent, who will take over the duties of the King until they return. Once the King returns, he must state "I have returned and will be taking back my power" while tagging the Regent in power. If the King is absent for more than five days, the chosen Regent will automatically take over until his return. The King can reject any rules that the Regent approves in his absence upon his return, and vice versa. He may also change either declaration to one of obsolescence. The Regent has no other powers other than taking over for the King. 

The Regent will have all of the privileges, responsibilities, and limitations of the King while serving as a replacement, as well as keeping track of all proposals and amendments and whether or not they approved or rejected them for the king upon their return. Failure to do so will culminate in a fine of five spheres per proposal and amendment not kept track of. The Regent must also announce a replacement in the case he also is made unavailable, where that person will become the Temporary Regent until either the Regent or King has returned. Temporary Regent has all the powers and responsibilities of the Regent upon the Regent's absence. If a Regent and a Temporary Regent are both not chosen or available, the players can vote a Voted-Regent into place. The Voted-Regent will carry all the responsibilities of the Regent and can keep power even if the chosen Temporary Regent returns, though they must give back power once the Regent or King returns.

The Regent, Temporary Regent, and Voted Regent cannot earn or lose spheres in their time in power but will be given ten spheres for each day of keeping track of proposals upon the King's return. Every proposal that Regent, Temporary Regent approves and the King rejects or vice versa will result in a fine of one sphere per proposal. The King can decide to offer more or fewer spheres to the Regents for their time in power and can mitigate the one sphere fine, but cannot increase the fine.

@Aspiring Writer

[Aspiring Writer]

Just now, xinoehp512 said:

I propose an amendment to  The Regent: The King must select someone to become a Regent and must always have a Regent at all times. He may change who is Regent whenever he chooses to. If the King is aware he will be unavailable or absent for longer than three days, he must announce and appoint the Regent during his absence, stating "I appoint the current Regent to take over my position during my absence of (insert predicted number of days)." while tagging the Regent, who will take over the duties of the King until they return. Once the King returns, he must state "I have returned and will be taking back my power" while tagging the Regent in power. If the King is absent for more than five days, the chosen Regent will automatically take over until his return. The King can reject any rules that the Regent approves in his absence upon his return, and vice versa. He may also change either declaration to one of obsolescence. The Regent has no other powers other than taking over for the King. 

The Regent will have all of the privileges, responsibilities, and limitations of the King while serving as a replacement, as well as keeping track of all proposals and amendments and whether or not they approved or rejected them for the king upon their return. Failure to do so will culminate in a fine of five spheres per proposal and amendment not kept track of. The Regent must also announce a replacement in the case he also is made unavailable, where that person will become the Temporary Regent until either the Regent or King has returned. Temporary Regent has all the powers and responsibilities of the Regent upon the Regent's absence. If a Regent and a Temporary Regent are both not chosen or available, the players can vote a Voted-Regent into place. The Voted-Regent will carry all the responsibilities of the Regent and can keep power even if the chosen Temporary Regent returns, though they must give back power once the Regent or King returns.

The Regent, Temporary Regent, and Voted Regent cannot earn or lose spheres in their time in power but will be given ten spheres for each day of keeping track of proposals upon the King's return. Every proposal that Regent, Temporary Regent approves and the King rejects or vice versa will result in a fine of one sphere per proposal. The King can decide to offer more or fewer spheres to the Regents for their time in power and can mitigate the one sphere fine, but cannot increase the fine.

Approved

[Aspiring Writer]

In the case that I am absent, @xinoehp512 will be my Temporary Regent. 

49 minutes ago, Chasmgoat said:

Wait, the law was applied before it even became retroactive. So, if a law were passed saying laws are retroactive and one law immediately is passed and stops one of the first laws it completely messes up the game! Besides, I never got close to winning, it was hoidwastaken.

You have not yet proved when the rule was put in the rule book. If it wasn't in the rule book before, it's not legal.

[Chasmgoat he/him]

8 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

In the case that I am absent, @xinoehp512 will be my Temporary Regent. 

You have not yet proved when the rule was put in the rule book. If it wasn't in the rule book before, it's not legal.

ah, but I did

9 hours ago, Chasmgoat said:

finally! I was not able to take a screenshot before since both posts were within the same hour and they both said "posted x hours ago"

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

[Aspiring Writer]

3 hours ago, Chasmgoat said:

ah, but I did

 

 

No, you didn't. He could've not added in for ten minutes or an hour. Also, upon further examination, The king cannot makes rules until he returns, and he technically hadn't returned, so I was still in power, so the law is either way mute.

[Chasmgoat he/him]

19 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

The king cannot makes rules until he returns,

where does it say that?

also, wouldn't making a rule count as returning for a short period?

[Aspiring Writer]

1 hour ago, Chasmgoat said:

where does it say that?

also, wouldn't making a rule count as returning for a short period?

A rule approved by the king needs to be in the rulebook to be official, Hoid was not allowed to change affiliations as he did not make a proposal or amendment that make that possible., the king said he would be gone for a week and he needs to state he was returned to take back power and can't just make a law randomly in the middle

[LukeWasTaken he/him]

6 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

A rule approved by the king needs to be in the rulebook to be official, 

I am not seeing that anywhere, can you put the number?

[Chasmgoat he/him]

7 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

A rule approved by the king needs to be in the rulebook to be official

the rule is in the rulebook

[Aspiring Writer]

37 minutes ago, Chasmgoat said:

the rule is in the rulebook

if it was put in after I made the rule that all secret PMs need to include the regent, then the law is illegal. And even then, There has been an amendment changing the rule to remove the loophole.

[Chasmgoat he/him]

So you are saying the law is legal... Okay. The amendment would have taken place after hoid "won" and so, If he were allowed to switch Alliances, he wins.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

The law is not legal. For one, it was never approved in thread, therefore the Anti-Secrecy Law renders it legally meaningless. For another, Experience "approved" the law after he left. The law says that the Regent takes over the powers of the King, so it can be easily reasoned that such an 'approval' was meaningless. When the rule was placed in the rulebook is irrelevant. 

[Chasmgoat he/him]

1 minute ago, xinoehp512 said:

For one, it was never approved in thread, therefore the Anti-Secrecy Law renders it legally meaningless.

It was approved before the Anti-Secrecy Law was. The anti-secrecy law does not apply to it.

2 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

The law says that the Regent takes over the powers of the King

yes, but it does not mention the King loses his powers, making the approval Legal.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

1 minute ago, Chasmgoat said:

It was approved before the Anti-Secrecy Law was. The anti-secrecy law does not apply to it.

The Anti-secrecy law specifically applies retroactively now. (Even the original proposal could arguably be applied.)

3 minutes ago, Chasmgoat said:

yes, but it does not mention the King loses his powers, making the approval Legal.

When something is "taken over," it is means that the original owner no longer has possession of that thing.  

[Chasmgoat he/him]

11 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

The Anti-secrecy law specifically applies retroactively now. (Even the original proposal could arguably be applied.)

When something is "taken over," it is means that the original owner no longer has possession of that thing.  

The Law was posted in this thread to be confirmed because it was added to the original post, If it was added, it is being declared as approved. The law of Anti-secrecy only needs it to be revealed it was accepted, it does not need to be accepted in a new post. Besides, doesn't this show it was accepted? also, at the time of Hoid "winning", the law of antisecrecy was not established yet, so the law did not have to be revealed at the time, so at the time it was legal.

Spoiler

as for "Taken Over", The regent is being regarded as having the kings abilities, but the king has Ultimate authority, even over the regent. So, I would argue that it was legally approved.