Black Sphere What We Actually Know.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

I don't think people travel the CR by accident(most of the time).  My point was that Roshar is very clearly accessible.  I also think that leaving roshar would be a pain(speaking literally as you are moving to a higher gravity lower oxygen environment).

I mean, all of them have clear mission on this particular planet, so they need to be here no matter how hard it will be (of course, we know about caravans)

 

10 minutes ago, Karger said:

and the stormfather is technically an ancient spren.  I think your doing more of a stretch then me here.

Of course im stretching,

[+Child of Hodor]

7 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

I mean, all of them have clear mission on this particular planet, so they need to be here no matter how hard it will be (of course, we know about caravans)

 

Of course im stretching,

@Karger It’s still a stretch to argue the Stormfather is who Aesudan was talking about and not an Unmade when she said Gavilar found an ancient spren given we know Gavilar wanted a desolation, was messing around with Braize, had dark glowing gems and raged about becoming a god to his wife. He sounds like someone who found an Unmade.

It’s possible she meant the Stormfather, he is an ancient spren, but not likely in context. 

And again no one finds the Stormfather he finds you. How did Dalinar find him? How did he figure out how to bond him? He didn’t even know he was doing it until the 2nd ideal on top of Urithiru. The Stormfather chose him. 

Gavilar could have claimed he actively found the Stormfather to his Sons of Honor buddies to make himself seem grander and that’s why she said that.  Seems like a thing he might do. 

I do buy that he might have the Sibling. Navani remarks on the light being different from Voidlight and it’s obviously different from Stormlight.  
RoW Interlude spoiler: 

Spoiler

Syl remarks on a how she remembered Urithiru used to be lit by a weird light that is unfamiliar to her now. Sounds like the Sibling gives off a 3rd light that is unique.

 

[Karger he/him]

5 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

@Karger It’s still a stretch to argue the Stormfather is who Aesudan was talking about and not an Unmade when she said Gavilar found an ancient spren given we know Gavilar wanted a desolation, was messing around with Braize, had dark glowing gems and raged about becoming a god to his wife. He sounds like someone who found an Unmade.

Maybe but I highly doubt that he was trying to bond the thing and even if he managed to locate or even imprison one we have no evidence it was actually in one of the spheres.  Also Aesudan could easily have been talking about another voidspren type(we know at least one, Ulim, was on Roshar).  I personally ascribe his statements to Navani to ordinary megalomania(a disease that most "great men" suffer from) regardless of other theories.  This is actually a very good example of what I don't want to include in my list of things we actually know.  Sure the pieces easily could fall together this way.  It would make total sense if they did but we don't have anything resembling proof that they do.

I actually missed a relevant WoB that I just found.  Gavilar gave the same thing to both Szeth and Eshonai.  Unless he had two unmade in handheld spheres(which I very much doubt) they cannot have been unmade.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Karger

[cappybaro]

just got the wild thought that this gem contains Ba-Ado-Mishram and Sibling (or parts of 'em). As I recall correctly you should give something interesting for the spren to get him in the gem (Dalinar catch thrill with his emotions\memories). 

What if the ancient Bondsmith lure Bao with his god spren somehow.

Also Bao's "connection" thing make me thing that knowing more about her abilities will help to restore connection with the deadeyes 

Edited October 23, 2020 by cappybaro

[+Bzhydack he/him]

14 minutes ago, cappybaro said:

What if the ancient Bondsmith lure Bao with his god spren somehow.

Problem is, Sibling withdrew before Radiants with Melishi go to take out Ba-Ado-Mishram.

[Karger he/him]

8 hours ago, cappybaro said:

just got the wild thought that this gem contains Ba-Ado-Mishram and Sibling (or parts of 'em). As I recall correctly you should give something interesting for the spren to get him in the gem (Dalinar catch thrill with his emotions\memories). 

It would have to be parts as duplicates exists according to one of the WoBs.

[Crucible of Shards he/him]

It was interesting to me that Navani used the word “wrongness” to describe the sphere, and Shallan also uses the same word when describing the tower before she expunged Re-Shephir. Possible connection?

[ggscv]

It seems obvious to me after reading all the WoBs that it is a voidspren captured within the gemstone. It likely isn't an unmade (Gavilar would not have had several captured unmade, also unmade need a perfect gemstone to capture them properly and that gemstone clearly isn't perfect), nor is it voidlight (as Rlain says it is different from voidlight). That leaves either a fused (unlikely because capturing a fused would be a massive deal and it doesn't appear as if that has happened yet) or a voidspren. In my opinion, Ulim was the voidspren captured inside the sphere given to Eshonai and that basically was what kicked off the beginning of the end. This is further reinforced by the fact that in the RoW prologue, Gavilar was talking about transporting spren (likely captured voidspren) back and forth from Braize.

The only odd thing is the quote from Rlain 

Quote

He swore that Gavilar had given his general, Eshonai, a Voidlight sphere years before the coming of the Everstorm. When Navani showed him this second sphere, his reaction had been curious.

Rhythm of War Chapter 16

Either this is a case of Rlain mistaking a voidspren sphere for a voidlight sphere or my theory is completely off. The fact that Brandon says in this WoB

On 10/21/2020 at 0:05 PM, Karger said:

chasmfriend

Was the black sphere that Gavilar gave to Eshonai, did it contain the same thing that he gave to Szeth?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes! A question I can answer about the black sphere.

chasmfriend

So same contents?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

that the two spheres contained the same thing (either voidlight or voidspren) imply strongly that both spheres had voidspren inside them, even though Eshonai appears to imply that it was voidlight inside her sphere during the Oathbringer Prologue.

Quote

She stared at that terrible light, and—from the songs—knew it for what it was. The forms of power had been associated with a dark light, a light from the king of gods. She plucked the sphere off the table and went running.

Oathbringer Prologue

Maybe Brandon had things muddled up at the time or maybe Eshonai was referring to a voidspren all along.

Edited October 23, 2020 by ggscv

[+Bzhydack he/him]

1 hour ago, ggscv said:

that the two spheres contained the same thing (either voidlight or voidspren) imply strongly that both spheres had voidspren inside them, even though Eshonai appears to imply that it was voidlight inside her sphere during the Oathbringer Prologue.

In this time is no Voidlight on Roshar, so Eshonai couldnt know how it feels. She sees sphere with "wrong" light, so she thinks this is just Voidlight (probably she knows about it thanks to Songs), not something more.

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, ggscv said:

also unmade need a perfect gemstone to capture them properly and that gemstone clearly isn't perfect)

It is perfect.

1 hour ago, ggscv said:

Ulim was the voidspren captured inside the sphere given to Eshonai and that basically was what kicked off the beginning of the end. This is further reinforced by the fact that in the RoW prologue

I am of the same opinion but I hope someone else can make a decent argument for another side given the same info.

1 hour ago, ggscv said:

Either this is a case of Rlain mistaking a voidspren sphere for a voidlight sphere or my theory is completely off. The fact that Brandon says in this WoB

Only Venli seems to have known about Ulim prior to the desolation.

[Lemiltock]

@ggscv as @Karger said the gem is perfect.

Heres the quote (ROW spoiler just in case)

Spoiler

“Practically flawless,” Nem said, clamping the sphere in some small grips. “This wasn’t grown as a gemheart, I can tell you that. The structure would never align so perfectly. This sphere is worth thousands, Brightness. It will probably hold Stormlight for months without leaking any out. Maybe years. Longer, for Voidlight.”

 

[StormFather!]

3 hours ago, ggscv said:

She stared at that terrible light, and—from the songs—knew it for what it was. The forms of power had been associated with a dark light, a light from the king of gods. She plucked the sphere off the table and went running.

Oathbringer Prologue

This could mean that the void light was associated with the forms of power, or that the void spren inside was associated with the forms of power. So either way, it’s associated with forms of power.

Edited October 23, 2020 by StormFather!

[ggscv]

12 hours ago, Lemiltock said:

@ggscv as @Karger said the gem is perfect.

Heres the quote (ROW spoiler just in case)

  Hide contents

“Practically flawless,” Nem said, clamping the sphere in some small grips. “This wasn’t grown as a gemheart, I can tell you that. The structure would never align so perfectly. This sphere is worth thousands, Brightness. It will probably hold Stormlight for months without leaking any out. Maybe years. Longer, for Voidlight.”

 

Practically flawless, not flawless. The Kings Honor gem held stormlight for 200 years, this gem only holds stormlight for a few years at most.

[Lemiltock]

54 minutes ago, ggscv said:

Practically flawless, not flawless. The Kings Honor gem held stormlight for 200 years, this gem only holds stormlight for a few years at most.

That was also a quick assesment made after 5 seconds, practically in this instant could mean the artifabrian had not examined it long enough to confirm either way. How do you know it only holds stormlight for a few years? Currently all we have is a quick assessment that indicates the gem is practically flawless and that its hold something similar to voidlight for years (at least 6 by this point likely longer).

[ggscv]

20 hours ago, Lemiltock said:

That was also a quick assesment made after 5 seconds, practically in this instant could mean the artifabrian had not examined it long enough to confirm either way. How do you know it only holds stormlight for a few years? Currently all we have is a quick assessment that indicates the gem is practically flawless and that its hold something similar to voidlight for years (at least 6 by this point likely longer).

It wasn't something like voidlight, it was a spren that it held for 6 years. Voidlight or stormlight likely would have leaked out by then. It's almost certain that Nem would have recognised the gem as a perfect gem if it was one.

[Lemiltock]

33 minutes ago, ggscv said:

It wasn't something like voidlight, it was a spren that it held for 6 years. Voidlight or stormlight likely would have leaked out by then. It's almost certain that Nem would have recognised the gem as a perfect gem if it was one.

Yer she did recognize it, by saying on a two second look with a low quality tool that the gem was practically flawless with out then pointing to any flaws, she also went to the point of calling someone over to show how flawless it was who was excited to examine it with a higher quality tool. How can you say it would have leaked? Based on what observation in book, Nem said it was possible for stormlight to be held for years in the gem. I think its likely a fused or odium spren. But Nems assessment doesnt indicate that the gem isnt flawless, she was even excited to get better equipment to examine it, you dont do that for just any gem.