What actually caused the new desolation?

[ALAKA]

I'm sure this has been discussed to death already, but I couldn't find any single thread discussing this:

What actually caused the new desolation? Was it:

1) The Parshendi summoning the Everstorm,

2) Taln giving up in Damnation,

3) Gavilar/ Sons of Honour's weird experiments,

4) Return of the Surgebinders.

It seems strange that these things all happened almost at once after thousands of years. Are any of them connected (or Connected!) to each other? Are some just red herrings? 

Also odd how the Desolation was foreseen by Dalinar and Renarin - was it inevitable? If Eshonai had been a little more careful would nothing have happened?

[Eternal Khol he/him]

i assume you’re referring specifically to the Everstorm? Correct?

yes, most of these are connected, but not directly

more like how two link on opposite sides of a chain would be considered connected

1. the Parsh did indeed summon the Everstorm when they sang in Stormform.

though, the Everstorm itself has been building up for centuries, if not thousands of years. It was predicted thousands of years before by the Fused or Minions of Odium

 

2. Taln giving up started the desolations anew, but theyd be like previous times, no Everstorm included
 

3. You can forget about the Sons of Honor, theyre not really relevant to this as far as is know(not relevant to anything anymore XD)

 

4. the Spren must have had in inkling or felt that the time of desolations was near again and that the world needed radiants. Even if the spren didn’t directly know, its still the reason for why they’re bonding again

Edited September 30, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Karger he/him]

As we understand it this

1 hour ago, ALAKA said:

2) Taln giving up in Damnation,

caused this

1 hour ago, ALAKA said:

3) Gavilar/ Sons of Honour's weird experiments,

this

1 hour ago, ALAKA said:

4) Return of the Surgebinders.

and this

1 hour ago, ALAKA said:

1) The Parshendi summoning the Everstorm,

1 hour ago, ALAKA said:

Also odd how the Desolation was foreseen by Dalinar and Renarin - was it inevitable? If Eshonai had been a little more careful would nothing have happened?

If Eshonai was a little more careful and avoided stormform a "classic" desolation would have happened with the fused at a huge disadvantage due to the lack of bodies.  One or two fused could have gotten out and caused some chaos espeshally if they managed to heal some of the parshendi but the damage would have been considerably less.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Karger

[Quantus he/him]

I think Gavilar and the SoH's experiments is what allowed the sentient Voidspren to cross back to Roshar.  This in turn is what gave said Voidspren the opportunity manipulate Venli into arranging the Everstorm.  I suspect that Taln Never "Broke" on Braize, but rahter he witnessed the Braise side of the Everstorm and/or the exodux of Fused and Voidspren, and chose to voluntarily Return to Rosahr to continue the Good Fight.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Quantus

[ALAKA]

Seems to be that the consensus here is that Surgebinders returning are not a cause, just an effect (possibly the spren's response to the impending desolation). Nale seemed/seems (not clear if he changed his mind about that point) to think that Surgebinders caused a Desolation. Is that totally wrong then?

@Quantus: Regarding the SoH experiments, it makes sense that they didn't achieve anything that couldn't have happened just with Taln breaking and the Everstorm coming - but from a meta-narrative perspective it feels wrong. Maybe that allowed the voidspren to return as you suggest. Would the Desolation have happened even if Taln hadn't broken though?

2 hours ago, Karger said:

If Eshonai was a little more careful and avoided stormform a "classic" desolation would have happened with the fused at a huge disadvantage due to the lack of bodies.  One or two fused could have gotten out and caused some chaos espeshally if they managed to heal some of the parshendi but the damage would have been considerably less.

On that subject - off topic but I've always been confused- in previous Desolations didn't the Fused return when a Herald broke- how else would it start? So is the only difference how long the "respawn" takes...

Edited September 30, 2020 by ALAKA

[Karger he/him]

47 minutes ago, ALAKA said:

Seems to be that the consensus here is that Surgebinders returning are not a cause, just an effect (possibly the spren's response to the impending desolation). Nale seemed/seems (not clear if he changed his mind about that point) to think that Surgebinders caused a Desolation. Is that totally wrong then?

Yes.  He is taking advice from Ishar who is the maddest of the Heralds.

49 minutes ago, ALAKA said:

On that subject - off topic but I've always been confused- in previous Desolations didn't the Fused return when a Herald broke- how else would it start? So is the only difference how long the "respawn" takes...

Unclear actually.  The following is just my read on things.  When a Herald broke all ten would teleport back to Roshar and warn the humans.  This would give them some prep time.  They would then lead the humans against the fused and help civilization as much as possible before going back.  When you killed a fused in the old days it would be reborn on Braize and have to take the long way to Roshar.  As such the Heralds had to leave before the fused they killed could make it to Roshar for round two.

[Wyndleblade she/her]

Do we know how long Taln was wandering around Roshar after breaking before he ended up in Kolinar?

[ftl]

I also agree that the Everstorm and Taln breaking happening at exactly the same time, on a timescale of thousands of years, can't be a coincidence.

I can think of, so far, two plausible explanations that tie it all together.

One: Taln breaking caused the Everstorm. Maybe him breaking is what let the Voidspren first make their way back to Roshar and contact the Parshendi; this led to the eventual summoning of the Everstorm. Possibly the voidspren returning is what led to the truespren also starting to look for bonding candidate. Possibly the voidspren returning also is related to the Sons of Honor experiments, because it made travel to Braize via the Oathpact more doable?

Two: The Everstorm caused Taln to return to Roshar... without breaking. Maybe the voidspren on Roshar finally - after millenia of trying - got the Everstorm summoned to return more of their bretheren. Gavilar's stuff was then also part of the voidspren machinations, just not the avenue that ended up bringing them back. It's possible that the truespren saw their progress and started to look for bonds. In this case, I can't think of a way that the return of the Everstorm would make Taln break - so one possibility is that it *didn't*. He returned because the Fused returned, but in his insane state doesn't realize that he never actually broke down. (Mostly because I don't see any plausible way for the everstorm to cause Taln to break.)