Honorspren Shortage

[Quantus he/him]

So we now know that as of RoW the Order of Windrunners has maxed out, and while there are plenty of worthy candidates among the squires, there are no more (willing) Honorspren available*.   The intimidate question that comes to mind is Why.  I can think of three reasons (or categories of reasons) for this to occur:

• Social/Cultural issue: The rest of the Honorspren are not willing or able to commit themselves to the Radiant side, so the available population is limited. 
  • Perhaps the other Honorspren are still hesitant to risk another Recreances, and/or commit to the current conflict.  Or....
  • There could be voidish oppression in the Honorspren territories of Shadesmar preventing more from making the journey to the Physical realm to Bond (maybe that's the driver of the Shadesmar quest?)
• Metaphysical Issue:  Perhaps the Orders' Bonds are more directly hierarchical than we initially thought, and they have hit a cap because the Order as a Whole cant support more Windrunners until somebody discovers and Speaks the 4th, and by implication there will be another cap until a 5th Ideal Windrunner emerges.

 

 

*Except for one specific one that Kaladin mentions.  I suspect there is a Spren ready to Bond Rock, but he's resistant for what Im going to broadly call "Cultural Issues".  

[Gilphon]

I think the answer is the first one. Like we saw if Shadesmar in OB that the Honorspren were still largely sceptical of humans, and seemed disquieted by the idea that Radiants were the thing again. Which can be contrasted with the Cultivationspren who seemed overjoyed by the prospect. Which fits with the way that Edgedancers seem to be currently be the largest Order once you subtract the Windrunner squires. 

[LightReader she/her]

Perhaps Kaladin’s failure to swear the fourth ideal is part of why many honorspren are still so skeptical. They could be holding out to see if any of the Windrunners will actually be able to progress further.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

• Metaphysical Issue:  Perhaps the Orders' Bonds are more directly hierarchical than we initially thought, and they have hit a cap because the Order as a Whole cant support more Windrunners until somebody discovers and Speaks the 4th, and by implication there will be another cap until a 5th Ideal Windrunner emerges.

If that were the case, the issue should not come unexpected and unexplained.

7 minutes ago, LightReader said:

Perhaps Kaladin’s failure to swear the fourth ideal is part of why many honorspren are still so skeptical. They could be holding out to see if any of the Windrunners will actually be able to progress further.

As you can still back out before the 5th oath that failure should reassure sceptical spren.

[dgreene196]

On 8/11/2020 at 1:23 PM, Quantus said:

*Except for one specific one that Kaladin mentions.  I suspect there is a Spren ready to Bond Rock, but he's resistant for what Im going to broadly call "Cultural Issues".  

Just as an alternative theory (without any information), maybe Phendorana (who seems to be an honorspren leader) insists that she replace Syl’s bond with Kaladin.  Or she could want Rock since he showed her respect, and he refuses (which is certainly more likely).

[LordTheodore]

On 8/11/2020 at 6:23 PM, Quantus said:

• • There could be voidish oppression in the Honorspren territories of Shadesmar preventing more from making the journey to the Physical realm to Bond (maybe that's the driver of the Shadesmar quest?)

We know that there is a lack of Elsecallers as the majority of Inkspren are opposed to forming the Nahel Bond. We also know that the Elsecallers were the order who were most active in Shadesmar. In addition as far as we know only Timbre is the only Lightspren willing to form the Nahel Bond and she was unwilling to bond a human. This means that there are no Willshpers in the coalition which is another order that was involved in Shadesmar. This means that the radiants probably have had little involvement in affairs in shadesmar over the past year which is problematic since we know that the fused were already exerting considerable influence over shadesmar in Oathbringer. They have had another year in which to consolidate their power with, I suspect, little radiant opposition. I suspect that the honorspren are actively engaged in conflict with the fused and losing because they have little radiant support and few numbers. Also its likely that the Highspren have come to some sort of arrangement with the Fused which would remove another historical ally of the Honorspren from the conflict in shadesmar

[Knight Oblivion]

I think there's a solid possibility that the Honorspren don't have the numbers to commit more to the Radiants while still maintaining a viable population to secure their holdings in Shadesmar or restore their population in the event of a Recreance 2: Electric Boogaloo.

 

If I recall correctly, their population was devastated during the first Recreance. They were only able to rebuild their population through the second round of ten made by the Stormfather and learning to reproduce themselves. We don't really know what their total numbers are outside of the ones we saw on their ship and the fifty-ish that have bonded.

[Subvisual Haze]

I would guess they're being held captive or under siege inside the Honorspren city/fortress in Shadesmar.  We already saw the Fused causing mischief in Shadesmar during Oathbringer, harassing the honorspren in Shadesmar to limit the number of Windrunners makes sense. 

Preventing this sort of thing from happening was probably one of the important function of Elsecallers.

[+Child of Hodor]

3 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I would guess they're being held captive or under siege inside the Honorspren city/fortress in Shadesmar.  We already saw the Fused causing mischief in Shadesmar during Oathbringer, harassing the honorspren in Shadesmar to limit the number of Windrunners makes sense. 

Preventing this sort of thing from happening was probably one of the important function of Elsecallers.

This makes sense.
From a meta-perspective I expect it to be something that Shallan and Adolin can solve and fighting a squad or small army  of Fused isn’t one.

My guess is there is a Herald there being a bad influence or some other influence has convinced the leaders of the Honorspren hold their people back. 

Shallan will have to do some convincing and deal with a Herald or Unmade or some such. 

[Innovation]

My theory is that the Honorspren are scared of the Fused. The Fused, attempting to cut down on the number of radients, probably threatened war and violence to the Honorspren if they’d continue to bond. The Honorspren leaders are therefore forced to stop allowing spren to bond.  

[Master Silver]

So this Honor Spren shortage, The Honor Spren could very well be besieged. We know the Fused are trying to conquer Shadesmar too. Also I think aside from Rock, Relain and Moash are two other possible candidates. From Moash's perspective, he may have gone after both Elothkar and Roshone to do what his captain and friend could not. Curious to see how it plays out. Hoping for something big to happen in the next couple of chapters.