theory Did the Bondsmith Spren Build Urithiru?

[+Child of Hodor]

TL;DR The Horneater Peaks creation myth describes three "gods" that could be the Bondsmith spren altering mountains to make it so people could live up there. An epigraph says Urithiru was made by "the hands of no man". Another discussing its creation says people "asked it to be placed" which is odd phrasing, asked who? Shin worship spirits of the stone and don't walk on it, except Urithiru is OK. Because the "god of mountains" built it for humans live in? Humanity was nearly wiped out by the desolation in Nohadon's youth. How did they have the resources and bodies to create it in his lifetime? 

Maybe the same "gods" who altered the Horneater Peaks helped (did all the work) on this massive, complicated project that would allow people live in the mountains. 

 

Details

This came about because I happen to read posts by @Halyo_Alex and @Bzhydack  on the RoW spoiler board. The part that sparked me is spoiler-free. (https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/91137-row-chapter-2-3-discussion/?page=11). 

It is around the Sibling potentially being the "god of stone" or "god of the mountains" described in the Horneater Peaks creation story Rock tells in WoR.  That story is essentially how three gods altered the mountains to make them livable up there for the Horneaters. It describes what could be the three bondsmith spren working together.

 https://coppermind.net/wiki/Unkalaki#The_Story_of_the_Horneater_Peaks

 

I then resumed my re-read for the Stormlight Marathon on here and the first chapter I looked at had this:

Quote

"They lived high atop a place no man could reach, but all could visit. The tower city itself, crafted by hands of no man" WoK Ch. 32 epigraph

If the Sibling, or all three Bondsmith Spren combined made Urithiru, that would fit this. 

Szeth says it's OK to walk in Urithiru stone. 

Quote

The only place in the East where the stones were not cursed, where walking on them was allowed. This place was holy. WoR I-10

The religion in Shinovar is led by Stone Shaman who revere the "spirits of the stones". Maybe Urithiru is OK because the ultimate "spirit" of the stone, mountains, whatever built it.  

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Stone_Shamanism

Quote

"Though many wished Urithiru to be buit in Alethela, it was obvious that it could not be. And so it was that we asked for it to be placed westward, in the place nearest to Honor." WoK Ch. 35 Epigraph

Interesting wording, they are asking someone(s) to place it. Kind of like when the Horneaters asked a certain "god of the mountains" for help and this god worked with the other two gods (of waters(Stormfather) and trees (Nightwatcher) to alter what we know as the Horneater peaks.

Urithiru was built by the time Nohadon wrote Way of Kngs. There's no evidence it existed earlier than Nohadon's lifetime, although it could have been. In the Nohadon vision he notes that 9 out every 10 of his people are dead and many other countries are as bad off or worse. I don't know if the humans had the resources or people to build it without a ton of supernatural help in one lifetime.

Urithiru is really complicated and massive. I guess the "hands of no man" thing could be like surgebinders used magic, but it's a lot of work. Or the Singers built it, but that seems unlikely. It doesn't seem to have the cymantics of the Dawncities they are thought to have built for one thing. 

 https://coppermind.net/wiki/Kabsal#History  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics

This may be way off, but the Bondsmith spren are very powerful. Stormfather could summon a highstorm at will at the end of WoR. Nightwatcher can drastically alter humans down to their spiritweb. 

It would be cool if the Sibling's suspected connection to Urithiru was more than to act as its battery. 

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by Child of Hodor

[Karger he/him]

If no one can find a flaw in your theory please put it here.

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by Karger

[Lightspine]

I was about to make a post about this very same theory until I saw this post, so I have a variation on it that I hope you find welcome:

While abandoning the tower and talking about the withdrawal of the Sibling, a Radiant records this in a Zircon:

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"The wilting of plants and the general cooling of the air is disagreeable, yes, but some of the tower's functions remain in place. The increased pressure, for example, persists."

I was going to propose in my post that the Stormfather was responsible for the increased pressure of Urithiru. After all, he's sort of a "wind god" and it doesn't make sense for a "stone god" to be able to do this. This could explain why the pressure is still there even if the Sibling has withdrawn. In the Horneater Peak's story, the spren of the mountains specifically aids the Horneaters by providing heat to the mountaintops, so I believe the Sibling specifically had responsibility for keeping the tower warm.

As for the Nightwatcher, I would like to point to the map. For some reason, I haven't seen any discussion about this, but the map at the front of Oathbringer includes the location of Urithiru and it is right above the Valley of the Nightwatcher. We know that the Valley is absolutely overgrown and fertile, so I think that this effect extends to the tower. The only reason it's not bursting with plants right now is that it's too cold for them—I believe this is specifically what the characters in the book say about why they can't get stuff to grow—so once the Sibling's heating is back, I think the Nightwatcher's proximity is going to make those gardens extra productive.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

On 1.08.2020 at 2:11 AM, Child of Hodor said:

 

Maybe the same "gods" who altered the Horneater Peaks helped (did all the work) on this massive, complicated project that would allow people live in the mountains. 

Quote

I generally agree that spren as we've seen them would have a hard time using the spanreed on their own or planting it. I do have a theory that The Sibling is the "God of Mountains" from the horneater peaks origin story and that They can manipulate stone, perhaps including gemstones. 

Last chapter seems to confirm this Theory, in my eyes at least.

It is something what Rock says:

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“It could have been you, Rock,” Kaladin said. “Either with those Shards you won, or as a Radiant with your own spren. We need you. I need you.”

“You have had me. Now, I need me. It is time to return, my ula’makai. My captain.”

“You just said your traditions were foolish.”

“To my daughter.” Rock pointed to his heart. “Not to me, Kaladin. I lifted the bow.”

“You saved my life.”

“I made that choice because you are worth that sacrifice.” He reached across the table and rested his hand on Kaladin’s shoulder. “But it is no sacrifice unless I now go, as is right, to seek justice from my people. I would leave with your blessing. But I will leave either way.”

“Alone?”

“Ha! I would not have anyone to talk to! Song will go with me, and younger children. Cord and Gift, they wish to stay. Gift should not fight, but I fear he will. It is his choice. As this is my choice.”

“Moash is out there, Rock. He might attack you. If you won’t fight… your family could be in danger.”

This gave Rock pause, then he grinned. “Skar and Drehy both said they wanted to see my peaks. Perhaps I will let them help fly my family, so we do not have to walk all across stupid lowlands. Then we will have protection, yes?”

(...)

“I give my blessing, Rock,” Kaladin said. “Both to you going, and to any who wish a short leave to accompany you. A Windrunner honor guard—you deserve that and more. And if you do encounter Moash…”

“Ha,” Rock said, standing. “He should try to come for me. That will let me get close enough to put hands on his neck and squeeze.”

“You don’t fight.”

“That? Is not fighting. Is exterminating. Even cook can kill rat he finds in his grain.” He grinned, and Kaladin knew him well enough to realize it was a joke.

Rock held out his arms for an embrace. “Come. Give me farewell.”

Feeling like he was in a trance, Kaladin stood. “Will you return? If you can, after?”

Rock shook his head. “This thing I have done here with all of you, he is the end. When we meet again, I suspect it shall not be in this world. This life.”

Kaladin embraced his friend. One final, crushing Horneater hug. When they pulled apart, Rock was crying, but smiling. “You gave me back my life,” he said. “Thank you for that, Kaladin, bridgeleader. Do not be sad that now I choose to live that life.”

“You go to imprisonment or worse.”

“I go to the gods,” Rock said. He held up his finger. “There is one who lives here. One afah’liki. He is powerful god, but tricky. You should not have lost his flute.”

“I… don’t think Wit is a god, Rock.”

He tapped Kaladin’s head. “Airsick as always.” He grinned, bowing in a sweeping, deferential way Kaladin had never seen from him before.

We know that Horneaters worship Spren. One powerfull Spren is Godspren, and we know where other two Godspren are - Stormfather in the sky, Nightwatcher in the Valley (underneath Urithiru). Only one Godspren can be on Peaks. Sibling.

Also, Rock "goes to Gods" - I think literaly. He is going to into pools on peaks, and use Cultivations Perpendicularity to go into Shadesmar and give himself under spren judgement. There are Spren attached to Justice, Highspren. So is possible that Highspren will send him to the Sibling.