KandraAllomancer he/him Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) This is essentially a continuation of my previous thread: tl;dr version of it: I believe that Near East mythology (Ugaritic Baal Cycle, specifically) predicts that Rayse and the Fused will be killed with Sja-anat's help by the end of Arc 1. Arc 2 will be about Odium reforming itself OK, we can start We know that the names of the Unmade come from Near East (mostly Canaanite) mythology (plus some Lovecraft). Imagine my surprise when I found out that the same applies to selected Heralds and the Sibling: Ishar – Ishara, originally a Canaanite love goddess, then turned into Hittite goddess of oaths, who punishes the oathbreakers. Quite a fitting connection, I would say Shalash – Shamash, Mesopotamian god of Sun and light. Once again quite a good match Jezrien – supreme god (depending on the culture: El, Anu, Amurru, Yahweh). His later name, Ahu, is (given the nature of the letter 'h') pretty much identical to Anu. I believe that the fact that his names typically start with Je-/Ya- is a link to Jehovah/Yahweh (plus he's also worshipped as the only god in Emul) The names of the other Heralds don't have mythological origin, as far as I can say, which makes sense in a way, as in the ancient Near East only royalty (Jezrien, Ash) and maybe high priests (Ishar) would use names associated with divinity. They all, however, share the suffix “'Elin” which seems to come from El, associated with Jezrien The Sibling – Ashur, who represents a deified form of the city of Assur – clearly the same concept as the Sibling and Urithiru Fun fact: staring from Ashur, we can find a nice chain of (probably Easter egg) connections scattered around the Stormlight books. Ashur appears in the name of one of the last Assyrian kins – Ashurbanipal (literally 'Ashur has given a son-heir') who happens to share some similarities with Dalinar: he was known as the king who could read and write (not a small feat, given the complexity of cuneiform and ancient Summerian and Akkadian) he lost his lands in the West, but gained new in the East his capital, Nineveh, had the largest library of ancient knowledge at the time (similar to Urithiru) and was prophesied in the Bible to be completely destroyed (similar to the fate of Kholinar in Almighty's visions) the prophecy from the previous point was made by the prophet Jonah, who was, according to Bible, swallowed by a giant fish at one point – something weirdly similar to what happens to Hoid and a greatshell, as described by Lift Given all that, I can see two interesting theories/implications: The Unmade are Odium's Heralds/Honorblades: I have assumed for a long time that the Unmade would be the Bondsmith godspren (or maybe Truthwatcher godspren) for Voidbinding, but in the light of the new evidence I believe they are the equivalent of the Heralds instead. It makes sense: they are superpowered beings using their Shard's power on a hostile Shard's territory, trying not to get captured. They are also not exactly efficient – Yelig-nar uses his hosts up rather quickly, as the Honorblades use Stormlight The new, evil Oathpact As I wrote above, I believe that Arc 2 will include reforming Odium. We know that: there is no Unmade corresponding to the Order of Bondsmiths Ishar is a crazy, egomaniac Bondsmith who possibly wants the death of all mankind Arc 2 will be about figuring out the Oathpact Based on that, a possible mechanism of Odium's return is a new, evil Oathpact on Roshar - one between Ishar and the Unmade. It could be enough for Ishar to Ascend and bring Voidbinding (10-based, Voidspren bond based magic system) to Roshar – essentially a twisted version of what Dalinar tries to achieve with Honor and the KR in Arc 1 Edited July 20, 2020 by KandraAllomancer 8
SirNoSell Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 I like this, in my mind the idea of Jezrien has always reminded of what you would get when you mash together King Arthur and Judeo-Christian Jesus. 1
Azarias Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 When you say 'for Ishar to ascend', do you mean to become odium, or just to take control of and unite the unmade, or something else entirely. Also super well researched and thought out theory- wow 1
Karger he/him Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Azarias said: When you say 'for Ishar to ascend', do you mean to become odium, or just to take control of and unite the unmade, or something else entirely. Also super well researched and thought out theory- wow It could mean any of the above depending. I think the ambiguity is kind of the point. 2
KandraAllomancer he/him Posted July 20, 2020 Author Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Karger said: It could mean any of the above depending. I think the ambiguity is kind of the point. Exactly. All I can reasonably assume is that it would require more raw Investiture than Dalinar had at Thaylen Field and less than Odium has right now
PiedPiper she/her Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) A couple more similarities between Ashurbanipal and Dalinar: - They were both younger sons who weren't meant to be king - The heir next in line was passed over in their favor and and given a lesser title - for Dalinar this is Elhokar and the Highking business, even if that did happen later - for Ashurbanipal this is Shamash-shum-ukin, his older brother, who was given Babylon instead There are other things too, but they're not particularly relevant to the point I want to make. Assyria fell from within after it got too big to control and Babylon, ruled by Ashurbanipal's brother, rose up and took control, which I feel supports your Ishar theory: someone from the royal family -- or, in SA, one of the Heralds -- eventually betrays the rest after allying with opposing forces (in SA, Odium and Unmade; in Assyria, recently conquered territories like Iran, Anatolia, etc.) Also, the main entrance to the city of Babylonia was the Ishtar Gate. Tell me that doesn't seem suspicious -- almost-Ishar was the entrance to the city we're using as a parallel for Odium's forces. Babylon soon fell to the Persian empire, which occupied basically the same territory as Assyria. My guess is that this is what will happen to Alethkar. It falls in SA4 (we know it's already at the end of its rope from the Lirin chapter in the newsletter), and it's reconquered by not quite the same people some time in the back 5. Possibly the kids of our main characters now, thus the time jump. During this time, many of the Jews were taken and held captive in Babylon. The Diaspora took place shortly after as the land changed hands a bunch of times in a couple decades. This, in the books, could be the equivalent of Vorin forces being captured (and possibly corrupted) by Odium, and Vorinism becoming a minority religion as its major tenets are proven wrong (not that I'm implying that Judaism's tenets are wrong, just theorizing that Vorinism will end up becoming a minority religion like Judaism). Edited July 20, 2020 by PiedPeterPiper 2
Frustration Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 5 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said: Jezrien – supreme god (depending on the culture: El, Anu, Amurru, Yahweh). His later name, Ahu, is (given the nature of the letter 'h') pretty much identical to Anu. I believe that the fact that his names typically start with Je-/Ya- is a link to Jehovah/Yahweh (plus he's also worshipped as the only god in Emul. Also in the Makabalki kingdoms he's called Yeasier. 1
KandraAllomancer he/him Posted July 26, 2020 Author Posted July 26, 2020 On 20.07.2020 at 11:09 PM, PiedPeterPiper said: Babylon soon fell to the Persian empire, which occupied basically the same territory as Assyria. My guess is that this is what will happen to Alethkar. It falls in SA4 (we know it's already at the end of its rope from the Lirin chapter in the newsletter), and it's reconquered by not quite the same people some time in the back 5. Yeah, this is a very likely fate for Alethkar. I wonder if the same could apply to Urithiru - Odium seems very interested in it and there are some interesting facts about the Night of Sorrows
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