theory The Ghostbloods and their Purpose

[Diomedes]

I am farely confident I discovered the purpose of the Ghostbloods: They are Odium`s secret service a bit like the Kandra are the agents of Harmony. 

Let`s recap what we know about them

They hate Jasnah and want to assassinate her by any means possible 

They are very powerful ( when Shallan shows off the Ghostblood insignia  that lady was scared to death; they can seriously threaten Jasnah Kholin who is operating a network of assassins herself, but they are not powerful enough to silence her)  

They are worldhoppers 

They do not care about individual lives even in regards to their own agents ( Kabsals rather desperate attempt to kill Jasnah) 

They are very good at what they are doing (they keep a low profile and are able to maintain it, even though they are infamous in certain circles; they skillfully draw Shallan in to their ranks)  

They are interested in politics (they recruited Shallan`s father to gain influence in Jah Keved)

They have a higher purpose (Mraize says so)  

They have a tatoo showing three diamonds overlapping each other

 

A gigantic diamond is at the center of the voidbinding chart presumably signifying Odium, The three diamonds mean Odium`s domination over the other shards on Roshar  

 

Odium was trapped on Braize for the past four millenia. It is not possible for him personally to go to Roshar. He has a very high interest in influencing events on Roshar and setting the stage for the final Desolation. Ulim, the voidspren who was influencing Venli found a way to Roshar. If he managed to do it, people can hop on and hoff from Braize to Roshar especially if they happen to have millenia of expertise doing it and are operating in Odium`s interest. 

That`s where the Ghostbloods come in. They were recruited way back in ancient times to advance Odium`s interest in the entire cosmere. When the Knights Radiants ruled Roshar, they fled to other planets and built up support for Odium there. When the Recreance happened they immdiately came back to Roshar. They have been influencing events since then. 

Most importantly they keep Odium informed on what is going on on Roshar and give the Unmade instructions where to go and what to do. 

The Unmade are responsible for influencing events on a macro scale, inflating wars etc. The Ghostbloods are responsible for micro management: assassinating certain individuals, spilling secrets etc.

They have been very careful to distort and control how history is being written. That is what got them on track with Jasnah. She was hunting down information and pulling threads together that the Ghostbloods where not able to destroy over millenia. Odium did not want people to know that the Singers used to be the Voidbringers. Likewise they have been keeping the location of Urithiru a secret. I imagine across the millenia somebody would have discovered a gigantic tower in a mountain range in the middle of Roshar. They have been silencing these people and influencing the closest villages.              

The same goes for the Listeners on the Shattered Plains who do not live that far away from Alethkar. 

Odium has a plan and he has been working on it for millenia carefully setting everything up for the perfect storm. 

[Use the Falchion]

That's a really cool theory! 

[Honorless]

I don't think they really care all that much about taking sides in the upcoming conflict on Roshar, they're just there for the profits. I'd say they're mercantile, not just in the business sense, but in the philosophy sense. They go where there's profit, they deal in info and resources (and are apparently better than Khriss & the 17th Shard at accessing and acquiring things, though not better than Hoid). And that's all that they care about.

Mraize does tell Shallan that they want her to subvert Sja-Anat, so I doubt they're on Odium's side. Also, they knew what Order she belonged to but didn't tell Odium who assumed she was an Elsecaller. And clearly they've infiltrated Urithiru quite well, there's a lot more that they could've done to sabotage them but they don't really seem to care beyond profiting off the conflict

Edited May 3, 2020 by R J

[Karger]

Considering they have helped Shallan and Ash at the expense of Odium I find this doubtful.  If they wanted Odium to win they would have killed Shallan immediately on finding out who she was.

[Diomedes]

41 minutes ago, R J said:

Mraize does tell Shallan that they want her to subvert Sja-Anat, so I doubt they're on Odium's side

Well, Odium noticed Sja-Anat wanted to change sides and ordered the Ghostbloods to bring her back. 

41 minutes ago, R J said:

they knew what Order she belonged to but didn't tell Odium who assumed she was an Elsecaller.

That would indeed spoil my theory, if they indeed knew. I am going to reread that passage. This could also come down to a communication error between Odium and the Ghostbloods for instance Jasnah has some double agent inside the Ghostbloods who gave Odium false info or whatever else. I am not yet persuaded to let go of my theory yet!  

@Karger  Did they truly help Shallan at the expense of Odium? Seems like they want to recruit Shallan and draw her to Odium`s side as  a Radiant and as someone very close to Jasnah who could actually kill her. Pattern said multiple times she would kill him. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Diomedes

[Karger]

20 minutes ago, Diomedes said:

@Karger  Did they truly help Shallan at the expense of Odium? Seems like they want to recruit Shallan as someone very close to Jasnah who could actually kill her and draw her to Odium`s side. Pattern said multiple times she would kill him. 

They helped her track down and banish an unmade.  They did not reveal her identity.  I seriously doubt that Shallan would kill Jasnah at there demand and Mraize would have to be pretty stupid to order her.  Also how could Shallan kill Jasnah?  Jasnah is a considerably more proficient radiant then Shallan.  Pattern says Shallan will kill him because all other Radiants killed their spren.  It is a pattern.  They also DID help Ash track down Taln.  Uniting two of Odium's greatest enemies is not the action of his servants.  Finally they wanted to recover Jasnah's research.  That would not have served a purpose if they new more then Jasnah did which they would have if they were on Odium's side.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Karger

[Honorless]

9 minutes ago, Karger said:

They helped her track down and kill an unmade.  They did not reveal her identity.  I seriously doubt that Shallan would kill Jasnah at there demand and Mraize would have to be pretty stupid to order her.  Also how could Shallan kill Jasnah?  Jasnah is a considerably more proficient radiant then Shallan.  Pattern says Shallan will kill him because all other Radiants killed their spren.  It is a pattern.  They also DID help Ash track down Taln.  Uniting two of Odium's greatest enemies is not the action of his servants.  Finally they wanted to recover Jasnah's research.  That would not have served a purpose if they new more then Jasnah did which they would have if they were on Odium's side.

Just a minor correction: banish not kill Re-Shephir

[Diomedes]

28 minutes ago, Karger said:

They helped her track down and kill an unmade

Shallan chased her off. Nothing detrimental to Odium`s cause happened or could ever have happened. This worked very well convincing Shallan and us that they are not on the side of Odium. Besides maybe they wanted Re-Sephir somewhere else. 

 

29 minutes ago, Karger said:

Also how could Shallan kill Jasnah.

Because she is blackmailed with her familiy? Because she undergoes a significant change of character in the next book under the influence of the Ghostbloods? I could imagine so many reasons. Besides she does not need to kill her. Being an asset in the vicinity of Jasnah is enough. 

32 minutes ago, Karger said:

Pattern says Shallan will kill him because all other Radiants killed their spren.  It is a pattern.

He said in a way that made it very possibly a forshadowing of future events ominously in the very last Shallan chapter of WoR. Could be nothing of course, but I doubt it. 

33 minutes ago, Karger said:

They also DID help Ash track down Taln.

We do not know that much about Ash  at this point what role she is going to play in the upcoming events.  The heralds seem to have abandoned their original purpose. Nale is the best  example for this. 

 

37 minutes ago, Karger said:

Finally they wanted to recover Jasnah's research.

They wanted to know what kind of knowledge Jasnah had up to that point. Besides they wanted to make sure nobody else was having access to that knowledge. 

According to my theory have been controlling knowledge on Roshar for the last millenia. This fits rather well in that pattern.  

[Karger]

2 hours ago, Diomedes said:

Shallan chased her off. Nothing detrimental to Odium`s cause happened or could ever have happened.

They discovered more about the tower and prevented a total collapse of the alethi hold on Urithiru.

2 hours ago, Diomedes said:

Because she is blackmailed with her familiy?

Which they have delivered to her and can now be kept safe. 

2 hours ago, Diomedes said:

Because she undergoes a significant change of character in the next book under the influence of the Ghostbloods? I could imagine so many reasons. Besides she does not need to kill her. Being an asset in the vicinity of Jasnah is enough. 

I was talking about the practical aspects of killing Jasnah.  She is really hard to kill.

2 hours ago, Diomedes said:

He said in a way that made it very possibly a forshadowing of future events ominously in the very last Shallan chapter of WoR. Could be nothing of course, but I doubt it. 

He is talking about the cryptic worldview.  They are the spren of fundamental patterns.  When they see patterns they understand them immediately.  For example Pattern also says that Shallan will continue to draw no matter what her emotional state because she always has.  It certainly could be foreshadowing but I seriously doubt it.

2 hours ago, Diomedes said:

We do not know that much about Ash  at this point what role she is going to play in the upcoming events.  The heralds seem to have abandoned their original purpose. Nale is the best  example for this. 

That is still a huge risk.  Even if the Heralds don't adopt their previous role they have a lot of useful information for team radiant.  Also they had Ash at there mercy and new the location of Taln.  Odium seems not to want the Heralds around anymore given what he did to Jes.

2 hours ago, Diomedes said:

They wanted to know what kind of knowledge Jasnah had up to that point. Besides they wanted to make sure nobody else was having access to that knowledge. 

According to my theory have been controlling knowledge on Roshar for the last millenia. This fits rather well in that pattern.  

Jasnah had duplicated and shared her work with several people via spanreed.  Other people had access.  As to them controling all knowledge.  Why did Odium send Ulim to see the Venli instead of a ghostblood if they have that level of control? If they had all knowledge under raps then Jasnah would not have been able to complete her research.

[+Oltux72]

12 hours ago, Diomedes said:

Shallan chased her off. Nothing detrimental to Odium`s cause happened or could ever have happened.

He lost the chance to hit them in the back in case of Urithiru were attacked. Had she waited or remained undiscovered until the oathgate were opened to the Parshendi, Urithiru would have fallen. And there is the minor point of the KRs getting the gem archive.

THat was a major blow to Odium.

12 hours ago, Diomedes said:

He said in a way that made it very possibly a forshadowing of future events ominously in the very last Shallan chapter of WoR. Could be nothing of course, but I doubt it. 

That would make her useless as an agent. Odium is not going to run the GHostbloods just to kill one Cryptic, nor to get rid of Shallan.

12 hours ago, Diomedes said:

They wanted to know what kind of knowledge Jasnah had up to that point. Besides they wanted to make sure nobody else was having access to that knowledge. 

They had an agent in the Palineum. They would have torched it.

 

[Diomedes]

On 4.5.2020 at 6:28 AM, Oltux72 said:

Had she waited or remained undiscovered until the oathgate were opened to the Parshendi, Urithiru would have fallen.

We don`t know that. She does not kill a single soldier of Adolin`s crew. Her purpose seems to be to induce fear not fighting per se. Besides the attack on Urithiru was never meant to take the city. It was a diversion to draw troops and attention away from Thaylen. Keep in mind that most of the Alethi armies are stationed there. Dozens if not hundreds of shardbearers. 

On 4.5.2020 at 6:28 AM, Oltux72 said:

And there is the minor point of the KRs getting the gem archive.

Odium and the Ghostbloods are not omniscient. They are not aware of everything and they do make mistakes. 

 

On 4.5.2020 at 6:28 AM, Oltux72 said:

That would make her useless as an agent.

Not really. She is still married to Adolin and almost would have been Queen of Alethkar if Adolin had accepted the crown. She is in a position of confidence to Jasnah, Dalinar, Kaladin Adolin.  

 

On 4.5.2020 at 6:28 AM, Oltux72 said:

They had an agent in the Palineum. They would have torched it.

Likewise, they are not omnipotent. They can`t kill Jasnah, who operates agents of her own and who has powers of a KR unlike them. Besides you are referring to Kabsal? He is not exactly a skilled agent. He is some desperate guy they tasked with killing Jasnah. Just some cannon fodder they are willing to throw away. 

They are also keen on keeping a low profile. Torching a big library is a huge risk.  

Edited May 5, 2020 by Diomedes

[SanderFan69]

Questioner

How would - just really generally - the Ghostbloods react if they found or met Hoid?

Brandon Sanderson

(laughs) They... Some people among them know of him.

Questioner

So they know he's around.

Brandon Sanderson

Some of them do, not everybody. But they are aware of his existence. At least in lore, they don't always... Not all of them have connected the King's Wit to this person's lore, does that make sense? So what would they know? They'd probably want to get him and interrogate him. They would want to know what he knows, but he is really slippery and it's hard to get out of him what he knows.

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

 

Given this wob, it makes the most sense that the Ghostblood's goal is to gain information/power. Hoid has stated that if Odium knew where Hoid was, Odium would be willing to level a city for a chance at killing him. So, it is pretty clear that Odium and those who follow him would kill Hoid on sight if they knew who he was and not just interrogate him for information. Odium might be influencing the Ghostbloods in some way, but I think it is highly unlikely that their "higher purpose" is serving Odium.