[OB] Elhokar Foreshadowing Appreciation

[Darth Revan he/him]

While rereading chapter 5 of Words of Radiance, I noticed this:

Quote

The king himself paced back and forth beside the room's desk. His nose was larger than the paintings of him showed.

In The Way of Kings, there is a line of dialog from Elhokar where he mentions seeing things in mirrors, which we, the audience, know as Cryptics. It is super exciting to see this early foreshadowing of him becoming a Lightweaver. I love this line from Words of Radiance even more though. It evokes Pinocchio and his penchant for lying while also referencing the Lightweaver ability to alter one's appearance, as we will see Shallan do later in this book. This is the kind of thing I never would have noticed on a first reading, and I absolutely love it!

[Honorless he/him]

I think that's just a reference to how historical portraits often reflected historical aesthetics more than they reflected their subject's actual appearance

[agrabes]

Yeah, this section is from Kaladin's POV.  It's pretty much certain that this is Kaladin commenting on the King's vanity - that he had instructed the artists to make his nose look smaller in his portraits.  I don't think it evokes Pinocchio at all - it's just referencing that having a large nose is considered less beautiful than having a small or "normal" nose.  Kaladin hates the lighteyes and the king most of all as puffed up idiots who use their power to make themselves look good and noble but are actually rotten on the inside. 

[Aon Tia she/her]

16 hours ago, Darth Revan said:

While rereading chapter 5 of Words of Radiance, I noticed this:

In The Way of Kings, there is a line of dialog from Elhokar where he mentions seeing things in mirrors, which we, the audience, know as Cryptics. It is super exciting to see this early foreshadowing of him becoming a Lightweaver. I love this line from Words of Radiance even more though. It evokes Pinocchio and his penchant for lying while also referencing the Lightweaver ability to alter one's appearance, as we will see Shallan do later in this book. This is the kind of thing I never would have noticed on a first reading, and I absolutely love it!

I agree with @R J but still I think it is an interesting observation by @ darth raven

 I have always found it fascinating and want a bit more info in on the lies and deceits Elhokar engages in, that led the cryptic story be interested in him! 
We know when story began he lied about the saddle incident but he had already attracted cryptics way before! 
What kind of lies I wonder...

the fact that he is a terrible king.. 

the fact that they are doing is good for Alethkar?

the fact that all the high princes are loyal to him?

That he is a great warrior? His behaviour on the chasmfiend hunt suggests that he believed that! 
what else? Are these strong enough lies to attract cryptics?!!

[Knight of Iron]

On 5/1/2020 at 11:22 PM, The Traveller said:

I agree with @R J but still I think it is an interesting observation by @ darth raven

 I have always found it fascinating and want a bit more info in on the lies and deceits Elhokar engages in, that led the cryptic story be interested in him! 
We know when story began he lied about the saddle incident but he had already attracted cryptics way before! 
What kind of lies I wonder...

the fact that he is a terrible king.. 

the fact that they are doing is good for Alethkar?

the fact that all the high princes are loyal to him?

That he is a great warrior? His behaviour on the chasmfiend hunt suggests that he believed that! 
what else? Are these strong enough lies to attract cryptics?!!

I never really thought of that, what lies would have attracted the spren. On a similar note, what lies would have led Tien to attract a Cryptic...? What was Tien hiding?

[Honorless he/him]

3 hours ago, Knight of Iron said:

I never really thought of that, what lies would have attracted the spren. On a similar note, what lies would have led Tien to attract a Cryptic...? What was Tien hiding?

What if he was fed up with his big bro?

[Frustration he/him]

22 minutes ago, R J said:

What if he was fed up with his big bro?

No, just, no. That is wrong on so many levels. It makes inner me recoil, please no.

[Honorless he/him]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

No, just, no. That is wrong on so many levels. It makes inner me recoil, please no.

I mean, it is possible. Tien clearly loved his brother, doesn't mean he didn't sometimes resent the fact that he always had to prop him up. I think it may have been a feeling that he was ashamed to have and so he put even more effort into being the perfect little brother, but I don't think it'd have been an issue in their relationship unless it really festered and the two brothers were anyone less than who they were. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by R J

[Aon Tia she/her]

Tien might have attracted the cryptics when he was sent to the army. It is possible that he tried to survive in his own way by lying a bunch. 
@R J I thought you were joking there 

Edited May 4, 2020 by The Traveller

[Honorless he/him]

45 minutes ago, The Traveller said:

Tien might have attracted the cryptics when he was sent to the army. It is possible that he tried to survive in his own way by lying a bunch. 
@R J I thought you were joking there 

I don't think so, I think the process started while he was still in Hearthstone. When Syl mentioned "another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding…”, I think that was Tien

[Iarwainiel I she/her]

12 hours ago, Frustration said:

No, just, no. That is wrong on so many levels. It makes inner me recoil, please no.

Maybe it's that he always saw the world as better than it was - - that, in his innocence, Tien saw what could be or could have been, not what was. And that he went on doing that, beyond childhood, when most other people would have begun the disillusionment that adolescence brings.

Edited May 4, 2020 by old aggie

[Aminar]

On 5/1/2020 at 11:22 PM, The Traveller said:

I agree with @R J but still I think it is an interesting observation by @ darth raven

 I have always found it fascinating and want a bit more info in on the lies and deceits Elhokar engages in, that led the cryptic story be interested in him! 
We know when story began he lied about the saddle incident but he had already attracted cryptics way before! 
What kind of lies I wonder...

the fact that he is a terrible king.. 

the fact that they are doing is good for Alethkar?

the fact that all the high princes are loyal to him?

That he is a great warrior? His behaviour on the chasmfiend hunt suggests that he believed that! 
what else? Are these strong enough lies to attract cryptics?!!

I suspect it has a lot to do with Gavilar. His immediate family all seem to have secrets about him. Navani and Jasnah both seem to allude to him not being the man everyone saw him as. On the other hand Elhokar has really only said he's trying to live up to his father's legacy. Which to me suggests something similar to Shallan's story. Domestic violence of some sort. Violence that Elhokar acts like wasn't there. Violence that Jasnah dealt with in a different way. Driving them into similar but different orders.  Elhokar's hyper-vigilance is very reminiscent of what you'll see from children in abusive homes. There are elements of Jasnah's story that suggest she was a more direct recipient of that abuse, but I don't remember the specifics. Something about her being a fragile child, the way she rejects parenting from Navani, and there's earlier pieces I'm struggling to call up.