Master_Moridin Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 So I was looking back through the scene where Shallan and gang is hunting the Midnight Essence and they come across that room covered in art, and I noticed something. Shallan says there are murals that depict 10 kinds of spren and guesses they're for each Order. There's just one small issue. There's 12 Radiant spren. The Bondsmiths have 3 unique spren. The passage in question with the relevant portion bolded. Quote Gorgeous, intricate pictures of the Heralds---made of thousands of tiles---adorned the ceiling, each in a circular panel. The art on the walls was more enigmatic. A solitary figure hovering above the ground before a large blue disc, arms stretched to the side as if to embrace it. Depictions of the Almighty in his traditional form as a cloud bursting with energy and light. A woman in the shape of a tree, hands spreading toward the sky and becoming branches. Who would have thought to find pagan symbols in the home of the Knights Radiant? Other murals depicted shapes that reminded her of Pattern, windspren...ten kinds of spren. One for each order? -Oathbringer, Chapter 29 So what do y'all think? Is there a representation of just one of the Bondsmith spren? Is it an abstract representstion of the idea of a Bondsmith spren? Is this a writing error and there was supposed to be 9, with the glowing cloud, tree woman, and figure in front of a circle intended to be the Bondsmith spren? Perhaps the Bondsmiths were supposed to be unrepresented? I'm currently thinking either the second or third option, unsure though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 19 minutes ago, Master_Moridin said: So what do y'all think? Is there a representation of just one of the Bondsmith spren? Is it an abstract representstion of the idea of a Bondsmith spren? Is this a writing error and there was supposed to be 9, with the glowing cloud, tree woman, and figure in front of a circle intended to be the Bondsmith spren? Perhaps the Bondsmiths were supposed to be unrepresented? I think she confused the Stormfather with the almighty and the Nightwatcher for a weird pagan thing. 12-2=10. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Moridin Posted April 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, Karger said: I think she confused the Stormfather with the almighty and the Nightwatcher for a weird pagan thing. This is probably what I'd be settled on if it wasn't for the tree woman not looking anything like the Nightwatcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 42 minutes ago, Master_Moridin said: This is probably what I'd be settled on if it wasn't for the tree woman not looking anything like the Nightwatcher. The Nightwatcher might be able to shape change. We have only ever seen her unbonded least human form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Master_Moridin said: This is probably what I'd be settled on if it wasn't for the tree woman not looking anything like the Nightwatcher. They may have been trying to depict Cultivation, not the Nightwatcher herself, which would mean the other figure is likely supposed to be Honor. Edited April 3, 2020 by Invocation 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, Invocation said: They may have been trying to depict Cultivation, not the Nightwatcher herself, which would mean the other figure is likely supposed to be Honor. In which case she recognized that there were supposed to be ten spren by grouping I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Karger said: In which case she recognized that there were supposed to be ten spren by grouping I suppose. That, or they lined up with the Herald art for their respective Orders. Or they had the glyphs, which she'd probably recognize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Invocation said: That, or they lined up with the Herald art for their respective Orders. Or they had the glyphs, which she'd probably recognize. Something like that. The perspective is probably writen like that so that we don't focus on the sibling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Karger said: Something like that. The perspective is probably writen like that so that we don't focus on the sibling. That's assuming the Sibling was included in such a way as to draw attention in the first place, which I may just doubt because the Sibling seems like the kind of spren you'd depict in the background of things anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Invocation said: That's assuming the Sibling was included in such a way as to draw attention in the first place, which I may just doubt because the Sibling seems like the kind of spren you'd depict in the background of things anyway. I don't see why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Karger said: I don't see why. Think about how Urithiru is set up. The Sibling runs through all of it, keeping it together, but isn't a primary focus. The gemstone column was hidden in the bowels of the tower, after all, three shades of out of the way. With that being the case in the physical tower, it would probably color their thoughts enough to affect their art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Invocation said: Think about how Urithiru is set up. The Sibling runs through all of it, keeping it together, but isn't a primary focus. The gemstone column was hidden in the bowels of the tower, after all, three shades of out of the way. With that being the case in the physical tower, it would probably color their thoughts enough to affect their art. You are assuming that is based on choice rather then practicality. We don't know how the sibling or city works but I personally would not put a vital piece of infrastructure in a fortress city in an easily accessible place. The bowels of the tower are easily defensible should the enemy attack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Karger said: You are assuming that is based on choice rather then practicality. We don't know how the sibling or city works but I personally would not put a vital piece of infrastructure in a fortress city in an easily accessible place. The bowels of the tower are easily defensible should the enemy attack. The entire tower is easily defensible. There's about two ways in (the Oathgates and the caverns), and positioning the column down towards those caverns would likely produce a larger threat to its security than putting it up high. Not to mention that the Stonewards can literally reshape rock, so if they want it to be secure, all they have to do is lock it down with some assistance from them and you're good anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Invocation said: The entire tower is easily defensible. There's about two ways in (the Oathgates and the caverns), and positioning the column down towards those caverns would likely produce a larger threat to its security than putting it up high. Not to mention that the Stonewards can literally reshape rock, so if they want it to be secure, all they have to do is lock it down with some assistance from them and you're good anyway. Two ways that we know of. Generally when dealing with something vital humans tent to put it underground. Can you think of a vital piece of military hardware that we do not keep in the basement or equivalent of any instillation? Also tunnels are easily collapsible and defensible. If you loose the bottom of the tower and your enemy has explosives you are toast. The reverse does not hold true if you are already as deep as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Moridin Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Can we try and stay on topic xD What's important about the mural is that, in addition to all the other art, there *are* murals of ten distinct kinds of spren. So what's that tenth mural of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Master_Moridin said: What's important about the mural is that, in addition to all the other art, there *are* murals of ten distinct kinds of spren. So what's that tenth mural of? Probably a grouping of the three unique spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Master_Moridin said: What's important about the mural is that, in addition to all the other art, there *are* murals of ten distinct kinds of spren. So what's that tenth mural of? Jumbled my last one. Here's what I meant: a mural with the lesser spren of the Bondsmiths on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Moridin Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Karger said: Probably a grouping of the three unique spren. She specifically says ten kinds of spren. Just now, Invocation said: 10 distinct kinds, 10 orders. Seems like one of each. 2 minutes ago, Invocation said: Jumbled my last one. Here's what I meant: a mural with the lesser spren of the Bondsmiths on it. You think it's murals of lesser spren? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Master_Moridin said: You think it's murals of lesser spren? Yes. Gloryspren come to mind first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Master_Moridin said: She specifically says ten kinds of spren. Yes and each of the bondsmith spren are a type of godspren that can she could understand were meant to be there by the grouping. 1 minute ago, Master_Moridin said: You think it's murals of lesser spren? She points out a group of cryptics specifically. Edited April 3, 2020 by Karger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Karger said: She points out a group of cryptics specifically. I'm talking about the tenth. A way to give homage to the Bondsmiths without depicting any of the more secretive larger spren that would be easily perceived as a weakness of the Radiants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Moridin Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Karger said: Yes and each of the bondsmith spren are a type of godspren that can she could understand were meant to be there by the grouping. I guess that's a way of interpretating it. 1 minute ago, Invocation said: Yes. Gloryspren come to mind first. The spren that appear around Shallan are creationspren and they don't look like Cryptics, and she says one of the spren on the wall looks like Pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Master_Moridin said: The spren that appear around Shallan are creationspren and they don't look like Cryptics, and she says one of the spren on the wall looks like Pattern. I'm talking specifically about the 10th Mural with the lesser spren thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 35 minutes ago, Invocation said: I'm talking about the tenth. A way to give homage to the Bondsmiths without depicting any of the more secretive larger spren that would be easily perceived as a weakness of the Radiants. Then Shallan would have recognized GlorySpren. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Booknerd said: Then Shallan would have recognized GlorySpren. If she saw it. That was not prime viewing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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