Main character of Rythm of War

[Krafl]

My hypothesis are three:
1)  Adolin acting as Kholin Highprince fighiting to recapture Kholinar;
2) Navani trying to reactivate Urithiru;
3) Rlain and the missing listeners;

[+mdross81 he/him]

For those interested (and to aid the discussion/theorizing) I re-listened and wrote up a quick quick transcription from around 6:40 minute of the video:

This is the Venli/Eshonai book, right? But really it’s the Venli/Eshonai flashbacks, and the main book is focusing a lot more on another character. This just naturally happened during the writing process. There’s another character that ended up taking a lot of the time. It’s not a person who has a flashback sequence in the books. So, you can theorize on who that would be. It’s somebody who does not have a flashback sequence. So it’s not Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Szeth, Eshonai. But really it’s this character’s book mixed with flashbacks for Venli/Eshonai. … It really turned into this character’s book, a lot more than I was expecting. It was one of those happy accidents where I really liked how it turned out. But fans who go into this expecting something that’s as much Veni’s or Eshonai’s book as the last book was Dalinar’s book are probably going to be disappointed because it’s more of a split between these two characters. These three really. Venli and Eshonai in the flashbacks and then someone else in the present. … Hardcore fans, expect another character to really be the focus of this book.

[Callsign Radiant she/her]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Pretty sure he indicated otherwise.

Yeah I've just checked and he specifically says that the book is about three characters, Eshonai and Venli as the flashback characters and this other character. So he definitely doesn't mean that Venli is the main character.

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Callsign Radiant

[Ciridae]

Wow that’s really...interesting. Not gonna lie, I was really looking forward to Eshonai as a main character with her own book way back when, and then I got excited for Venli. Don’t know how I feel about this three way split. I’m sure it’ll be great any way we get it, but I’ve said before that I worry that Venli wouldn't get to shine in what we assumed would be her book. Now I’m really hoping the third character is Rlain, I really hope this is a singer focused book. I like Navani and Adolin a lot as well, and I could easily see either as the main character as well, but right now I would not be as excited about them as I would be about a singer character. 

[Karger he/him]

5 hours ago, Ciridae said:

I like Navani and Adolin a lot as well, and I could easily see either as the main character as well, but right now I would not be as excited about them as I would be about a singer character. 

We are going to have at least two singers.  Eshonai in the past Venli in the present. 

[Callsign Radiant she/her]

9 hours ago, Ciridae said:

Wow that’s really...interesting. Not gonna lie, I was really looking forward to Eshonai as a main character with her own book way back when, and then I got excited for Venli. Don’t know how I feel about this three way split. I’m sure it’ll be great any way we get it, but I’ve said before that I worry that Venli wouldn't get to shine in what we assumed would be her book. Now I’m really hoping the third character is Rlain, I really hope this is a singer focused book. I like Navani and Adolin a lot as well, and I could easily see either as the main character as well, but right now I would not be as excited about them as I would be about a singer character. 

At least I suppose it's better to know now than find out while reading the book. I think it would have been more disconcerting (and possibly disappointing) if you went into the book expecting mostly Venli. Brandon said it was something that happened naturally and worked well so I don't think he set out to write the book this way. I think this character must just really work with the plot/themes of the book. Though it seems likely there will still be a greater focus on singers than we've had before.

3 hours ago, Karger said:

We are going to have at least two singers.  Eshonai in the past Venli in the present. 

I believe we're also getting Venli flashbacks? I agree with your point that there will still be more singer pov chapters. Depending on who the third character is, we could also see singers in their chapters even if it's not Rlain. 

[Ciridae]

18 minutes ago, Callsign Radiant said:

At least I suppose it's better to know now than find out while reading the book. I think it would have been more disconcerting (and possibly disappointing) if you went into the book expecting mostly Venli.

I agree. I remember when Oathbringer came out a lot of people were disappointed because characters they really liked did not end up developing in ways that they expected. While I love getting excited about every little detail we get before the release as much as anyone else, I think it’s best to not get stuck on your expectations and go into it with an open mind. But I do still hope we get lot’s of singer stuff 

Also, have we considered Rock as a possible main character? I dont think it’s as likely as Rlain or Navani, but Brandon did say he wanted to write a Rock novella, and last I heard he’s focusing on Wandersail and Rysn instead. Could be that his planned plot for the novella grew and ended up working better as a larger part of the actual book.

[Callsign Radiant she/her]

31 minutes ago, Ciridae said:

I agree. I remember when Oathbringer came out a lot of people were disappointed because characters they really liked did not end up developing in ways that they expected. While I love getting excited about every little detail we get before the release as much as anyone else, I think it’s best to not get stuck on your expectations and go into it with an open mind. But I do still hope we get lot’s of singer stuff 

Also, have we considered Rock as a possible main character? I dont think it’s as likely as Rlain or Navani, but Brandon did say he wanted to write a Rock novella, and last I heard he’s focusing on Wandersail and Rysn instead. Could be that his planned plot for the novella grew and ended up working better as a larger part of the actual book.

Oh completely agree. I love finding out things before the release, but honestly with most other authors I don't think we get as much information and I'm happy to just start reading with no real knowledge other than what happened previously in the series. Expectations can seriously affect your perceptions of things and can sometimes ruin something which is actually really good. But I still love getting for information about stormlight releases regardless honestly.

No, I actually hadn't considered him at all. I can't remember, was the rock novella supposed to fit into a specific place in the series? Like was it meant to come between OB and ROW or between ROW and SA5? If the latter then maybe Rock is more likely to play a role in SA5. 

[Goatbringer he/him]

As much as I am not a huge fan of this character, inasmuch as I can hate any characters in Stormlight, the more I'm thinking about it, the more certain I am that this will be Navani's book. We already know from the back cover blurb that the face of the war is changing due to technological advancements (probably fabrials, Navani's main thing) and the blurb also mentions the secrets of the lost city of the Radiants. Oathbringer was full of instances where Navani was just sitting around being stumped by Urithiru and how it worked, so I think the main thrust of this book is going to be Navani figuring out how to switch on Urithiru. 

Plus, a little bit of a spoiler for those of you who don't subscribe to Brandon's newsletter:

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

We know from Lirin's opening chapter that the epigraphs in Part One of Rhythm of War is going to be a speech on fabrial mechanics Navani gives to the Coalition of Monarchs.

All this said, I'm quite disappointed it won't be Venli as the central character. While I'm sure she's going to get more screentime than she got last time, I was really looking forward to her primary role. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Goatbringer

[Callsign Radiant she/her]

15 minutes ago, Goatbringer said:

As much as I am not a huge fan of this character, inasmuch as I can hate any characters in Stormlight, the more I'm thinking about it, the more certain I am that this will be Navani's book. We already know from the back cover blurb that the face of the war is changing due to technological advancements (probably fabrials, Navani's main thing) and the blurb also mentions the secrets of the lost city of the Radiants. Oathbringer was full of instances where Navani was just sitting around being stumped by Urithiru and how it worked, so I think the main thrust of this book is going to be Navani figuring out how to switch on Urithiru. 

Plus, a little bit of a spoiler for those of you who don't subscribe to Brandon's newsletter:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

2

  Hide contents

We know from Lirin's opening chapter that the epigraphs of Part One of Rhythm of War is going to be from a speech on fabrial mechanics Navani gives to the Coalition of Monarchs.  

All this said, I'm quite disappointed it won't be Venli as the central character. While I'm sure she's going to get more screentime than she got last time, I was really looking forward to her primary role. 

Seems like a strong case for Navani then. There's this, the fact that Brandon said he was enjoying writing Navani and also 'the main character', the fact that we're expecting Urithiru to be activated soon. I don't think any of this means that it's definitely her but it does make her more likely. Does this change any predictions for the three character groups?

[Pagerunner he/him]

The WoB about Brandon enjoying writing Navani is an excellent cross-reference!

Another interesting tidbit: Navani was at one point intended to be a flashback character:

Quote

Marc Aplin

Okay, the next question we have (I think this one you might have answered before) but have we met all the main point-of-view characters yet? Or, if not, what percentage are we talking?

Brandon Sanderson

You have met almost all of them. Let me do a count... Let's see. The main characters in the book are (in the series) Kaladin, and Dalinar, Adolin, Jasnah, Shallan, and Navani, whom you all met in this book and most of them had viewpoints. Szeth, Taravangian, and Taln. And one of the other Heralds; I'm not going to tell you who that is. But I think you've met...you have, I'm sure, met that person; I know which scene they're in. And so, I think you've met them all, basically. Taln is the person who shows up in the epilogue.

Fantasy Faction Interview (July 2, 2011)

Brandon changed this up while writing Words of Radiance; Eshonai, Renarin, and Lift were slotted in instead of Navani, Taravangian, and Adolin. But it makes me think that there will be correlations between Radiant Orders of these characters (and the associated speculation as to Ash's eventual initiation into the Dustbringers, of course). Adolin has an Edgedancer blade, so he pairs naturally with Lift. That leaves a 50/50 if Navani is tied to Willshapers or Truthwatchers; I think her "exploring" the boundaries of fabrial science is very much in line with Eshonai's exploration of the real world. If this book is going to be the Willshaper book, I think it will work nicely for Eshonai (who attracted a Willshaper spren), Venli (who is currently a Willshaper), and Navani (who I suspect will become a Willshaper) to be the three main characters.

[Callsign Radiant she/her]

15 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

The WoB about Brandon enjoying writing Navani is an excellent cross-reference!

Another interesting tidbit: Navani was at one point intended to be a flashback character:

Brandon changed this up while writing Words of Radiance; Eshonai, Renarin, and Lift were slotted in instead of Navani, Taravangian, and Adolin. But it makes me think that there will be correlations between Radiant Orders of these characters (and the associated speculation as to Ash's eventual initiation into the Dustbringers, of course). Adolin has an Edgedancer blade, so he pairs naturally with Lift. That leaves a 50/50 if Navani is tied to Willshapers or Truthwatchers; I think her "exploring" the boundaries of fabrial science is very much in line with Eshonai's exploration of the real world. If this book is going to be the Willshaper book, I think it will work nicely for Eshonai (who attracted a Willshaper spren), Venli (who is currently a Willshaper), and Navani (who I suspect will become a Willshaper) to be the three main characters.

Yeah someone mentioned the wob about Brandon writing Navani in an earlier post and I thought it was a good piece of evidence. I thought Navani was originally going to be a flashback character but I wasn't sure. That's an interesting point about pairing these characters with the characters they were replaced by. I'm not sure about the Navani willshaper thing, but pairing Adolin with Lift makes sense and Taravangian feels like a better fit for Renarin's book (what with the diagram vs seeing the future stuff) so I guess that works too. 

[Goatbringer he/him]

24 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

That leaves a 50/50 if Navani is tied to Willshapers or Truthwatchers; I think her "exploring" the boundaries of fabrial science is very much in line with Eshonai's exploration of the real world.

I quite like that rationale - the discovery of new things doesn't necessarily have to mean exploring the physical world like Eshonai liked, but scientific or technological discovery as well. 

[Karger he/him]

5 hours ago, Ciridae said:

Also, have we considered Rock as a possible main character? I dont think it’s as likely as Rlain or Navani, but Brandon did say he wanted to write a Rock novella, and last I heard he’s focusing on Wandersail and Rysn instead. Could be that his planned plot for the novella grew and ended up working better as a larger part of the actual book.

Rock is not present at the tower in Lift's interlude and his Novella is being kept for latter so I do not think it is Rock.

[Chiberty]

4 hours ago, Callsign Radiant said:

Seems like a strong case for Navani then. There's this, the fact that Brandon said he was enjoying writing Navani and also 'the main character', the fact that we're expecting Urithiru to be activated soon. I don't think any of this means that it's definitely her but it does make her more likely. Does this change any predictions for the three character groups?

Actually, this is increasing my confidence in my prediction for the groups. There are still a couple of placements I'm less sure about (Adolin, Renarin, and Szeth), as I could see them taking the places of each other in my prediction, but so far, it's looking pretty good.

Edit: Something else that hasn't really been mentioned on this thread is the favorite scene Brandon talked about in the video. He said it's someone talking to Wit in part 4, and that this person only gets one viewpoint (unclear whether he means one viewpoint in just this part or in the whole book). Based on the outline visualization Brandon gave, this should be one off the lesser PoV characters in group 1. In my prediction right now, that would be either Renarin or Szeth, either of which I would be glad to see have a story told to them by Wit.

Edited April 3, 2020 by ChickenLiberty

[Callsign Radiant she/her]

17 minutes ago, ChickenLiberty said:

Actually, this is increasing my confidence in my prediction for the groups. There are still a couple of placements I'm less sure about (Adolin, Renarin, and Szeth), as I could see them taking the places of each other in my prediction, but so far, it's looking pretty good.

Edit: Something else that hasn't really been mentioned on this thread is the favorite scene Brandon talked about in the video. He said it's someone talking to Wit in part 4, and that this person only gets one viewpoint (unclear whether he means one viewpoint in just this part or in the whole book). Based on the outline visualization Brandon gave, this should be one off the lesser PoV characters in group 1. In my prediction right now, that would be either Renarin or Szeth, either of which I would be glad to see have a story told to them by Wit.

Oh I see you already had Navani as a main pov in group 1 so that still works. But are you thinking that Navani will be in Alethkar where Kaladin and Venli are? I thought the idea was that she would be working on activating Urithiru. Wouldn't that put her in the same location as Jasnah and Dalinar? Sorry if I've missed something. 

Yeah about the Wit story, Szeth and Renarin both seem like good candidates who could really get some good advice from talking to Wit.

[+mdross81 he/him]

Definitely seems like all signs point to Navani as the main character. I had assumed Navani would be working on waking Urithiru. But the publisher's summary makes it pretty clear that they haven't made much progress on Urithiru in the year between OB and ROW. It suggests that first "the enemy prepares a bold and dangerous operation." And then "the arms race that follows will ... potentially reveal the secrets of the ancient tower."

Maybe the human coalition decided that Navani's skills were needed more on the front lines working on the "new technological discoveries" that are changing the face of the war. I can imagine Navani spending a significant chunk of time in Alethkar developing new fabrial technologies for the war effort. Putting Navani in Alethkar would possibly set up nice mirroring viewpoints between her on one side and Venli on the other.

[Chiberty]

1 hour ago, Callsign Radiant said:

Oh I see you already had Navani as a main pov in group 1 so that still works. But are you thinking that Navani will be in Alethkar where Kaladin and Venli are? I thought the idea was that she would be working on activating Urithiru. Wouldn't that put her in the same location as Jasnah and Dalinar? Sorry if I've missed something. 

Yeah about the Wit story, Szeth and Renarin both seem like good candidates who could really get some good advice from talking to Wit.

Yeah, there is the possibility that I'm just completely wrong between groups 1 and 2. The main reason I put Kaladin and Venli in group 1 is because Brandon said that group 2 would be more narrowly focused, and I assumed that Venli's plotline would be one of the main things the book is about. However, with this new info, I see another likely possibility that also also fits all of our information, something along the lines of:

1: Navani, Shallan, Adolin, Jasnah, Lift

2: Kaladin, Venli

3. Dalinar, Szeth

Although that setup does still fit our info, there are some things about it that makes something similar to it seem less likely to me (I would explain each of the changes I made in that example, but it's not my actual theory), so for now, I'm going to stick with what I had before.

Edited April 3, 2020 by ChickenLiberty

[Callsign Radiant she/her]

1 hour ago, mdross81 said:

Definitely seems like all signs point to Navani as the main character. I had assumed Navani would be working on waking Urithiru. But the publisher's summary makes it pretty clear that they haven't made much progress on Urithiru in the year between OB and ROW. It suggests that first "the enemy prepares a bold and dangerous operation." And then "the arms race that follows will ... potentially reveal the secrets of the ancient tower."

Maybe the human coalition decided that Navani's skills were needed more on the front lines working on the "new technological discoveries" that are changing the face of the war. I can imagine Navani spending a significant chunk of time in Alethkar developing new fabrial technologies for the war effort. Putting Navani in Alethkar would possibly set up nice mirroring viewpoints between her on one side and Venli on the other.

That seems like a reasonable theory. It makes more sense that she would be in Alethkar when you put it that way. I think it's still possible she won't be but both are interesting possibilities.

1 hour ago, ChickenLiberty said:

Yeah, there is the possibility that I'm just completely wrong between groups 1 and 2. The main reason I put Kaladin and Venli in group 1 is because Brandon said that group 2 would be more narrowly focused, and I assumed that Venli's plotline would be one of the main things the book is about. However, with this new info, I see another likely possibility that also also fits all of our information, something along the lines of:

1: Navani, Shallan, Adolin, Jasnah, Lift

2: Kaladin, Venli

3. Dalinar, Szeth

Although that setup does still fit our info, there are some things about it that makes something similar to it seem less likely to me (I would explain each of the changes I made in that example, but it's not my actual theory), so for now, I'm going to stick with what I had before.

I think that setup leads to some interesting character interactions. You have Shallan and Adolin, Shallan and Jasnah, Jasnah and Navani, Lift with everyone and the other two groups have some obvious conflict/progress to make.

[Gilphon]

I feel like Rlain makes the most sense- It should to be somebody whose is story is complemented by the Eshonai/Venli flashbacks- ideally somebody whose story is intertwined with theirs. Rlain fits that bill nicely.

Navani and Adolin are the main other candidates, though. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

16 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said:

Yeah, there is the possibility that I'm just completely wrong between groups 1 and 2. The main reason I put Kaladin and Venli in group 1 is because Brandon said that group 2 would be more narrowly focused, and I assumed that Venli's plotline would be one of the main things the book is about. However, with this new info, I see another likely possibility that also also fits all of our information, something along the lines of:

1: Navani, Shallan, Adolin, Jasnah, Lift

2: Kaladin, Venli

3. Dalinar, Szeth

Although that setup does still fit our info, there are some things about it that makes something similar to it seem less likely to me (I would explain each of the changes I made in that example, but it's not my actual theory), so for now, I'm going to stick with what I had before.

There are problems here.

1. If you use a Windrunner on his own, you throw away his squires. And that is a gigantic waste. And Kaladin is a fighter, not a secret agent
2. You would not place your chief engineer and head of R & D on the front lines. The same applies to the engineering tems. That is an emergency measure.

[Chiberty]

4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

There are problems here.

1. If you use a Windrunner on his own, you throw away his squires. And that is a gigantic waste. And Kaladin is a fighter, not a secret agent
2. You would not place your chief engineer and head of R & D on the front lines. The same applies to the engineering tems. That is an emergency measure.

Yes, I know that there are problems with that. That is why I pointed out that it is not actually my theory. It was just an example. If you want to see my real guess, press on the link I posted further up.

Edit: About Navani being in group 1:

1. She is not their chief engineer; she points that out in WoR.

2. Even if she was, I would guess that she is in group 1 because that is what lines up with the related WoBs (In my old post).

3. Although I do think that group 1 is the front lines, that might not be the case. For all we know, group 1 could be at Urithiru, so Navani's presence in group 1 doesn't necessarily mean she's on the front lines. (Just to make sure I'm being clear, I am guessing that group 1 is on the front lines, but I could be wrong, so any problems with that doesn't need to affect Navani's placement in the groups)

Sorry if I'm being confusing here. I'm trying to defend my theory, but I think that I'm also accidentally trying to defend an alternate theory that I don't support, and that might be somewhat misleading.

Edited April 4, 2020 by ChickenLiberty

[+Oltux72 he/him]

2 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said:

Yes, I know that there are problems with that. That is why I pointed out that it is not actually my theory. It was just an example. If you want to see my real guess, press on the link I posted further up.

I see. This thread is confusing me to an extent. Sorry.

2 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said:

Edit: About Navani being in group 1:

1. She is not their chief engineer; she points that out in WoR.

Well, the end of WoR makes quite sure that she won't be believed. Roshar does not get the difference between a project manager and a chief engineer.

2 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said:

2. Even if she was, I would guess that she is in group 1 because that is what lines up with the related WoBs (In my old post).

3. Although I do think that group 1 is the front lines, that might not be the case. For all we know, group 1 could be at Urithiru, so Navani's presence in group 1 doesn't necessarily mean she's on the front lines. (Just to make sure I'm being clear, I am guessing that group 1 is on the front lines, but I could be wrong, so any problems with that doesn't need to affect Navani's placement in the groups)

Sorry if I'm being confusing here. I'm trying to defend my theory, but I think that I'm also accidentally trying to defend an alternate theory that I don't support, and that might be somewhat misleading.

OK, so maybe the first step would be to list theaters/missions and try to match groups to that. I will try to make a list

• Urithiru (reawaken Urithiru)
• Urithiru (weapons development - you really cannot put that into the territory of a major member of the alliance)
• Herdaz & norther Alethkar (fight a guerilla war)
• The Shattered Plains (hold on to the last vestige of Alethkar and fight the enemy)
• Aimiah (reconnaisance & weapons development)
• Cultivation's perpendicularity (interdicting it to the enemy)
• behind enemy lines (espionage)
• The Shattered Plains (investigating the Ghostbloods)
• Urithiru (questioning the Heralds)
• West of the Purelake (preventing the enemy from joining forces)
• Shadesmar (research & looking for allies)
• The Ocean (interdicting enemy trade)

[Chiberty]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

I see. This thread is confusing me to an extent. Sorry.

Well, the end of WoR makes quite sure that she won't be believed. Roshar does not get the difference between a project manager and a chief engineer.

OK, so maybe the first step would be to list theaters/missions and try to match groups to that. I will try to make a list

• Urithiru (reawaken Urithiru)
• Urithiru (weapons development - you really cannot put that into the territory of a major member of the alliance)
• Herdaz & norther Alethkar (fight a guerilla war)
• The Shattered Plains (hold on to the last vestige of Alethkar and fight the enemy)
• Aimiah (reconnaisance & weapons development)
• Cultivation's perpendicularity (interdicting it to the enemy)
• behind enemy lines (espionage)
• The Shattered Plains (investigating the Ghostbloods)
• Urithiru (questioning the Heralds)
• West of the Purelake (preventing the enemy from joining forces)
• Shadesmar (research & looking for allies)
• The Ocean (interdicting enemy trade)

This is getting further away from the "main character" topic, but I think it would be helpful to have a thread where we compile all the info we have on the groupings. Finding all relating WoBs and unresolved plot points to this can be confusing, so having it in one place would be nice. I think that we have enough information on this now that we can figure a few things out with a lot of certainty.

It's up:

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by ChickenLiberty

[galendo]

Ugh, please not Navani.  I like her best in small doses.  Here's keeping my fingers crossed for Rlain.