Mid-Range Game 40: A Defiant Rebellion

[The_God_King]

Cobb walked around Alta. Where is everybody? He thought. The base was mostly empty. Save for a few cadets and cleaning staff the base seemed abandoned. After the  Disputer attack, people would have been fearful to come out into the open. He expected better of the DDF. Blast it! We’ve reverted to what we were before the battle of Alta, he thought angrily. This base was still new and people were finding their footing on the surface but they still had a tendency to hide as soon as trouble came. They were defiant! Or so that’s what they were told. He didn’t believe any of that warrior nonsense that was eaten up by the other pilots but that didn’t change his view on being a coward! That word echoed in his head and memories of the battle of Alta flooded in. He stopped for a second, then continued walking, trying to chase the nightmares out of his head. His limp seemed to get worse as he continued down the hall.

 

seriously, where is everybody? I feel a bit lonely!

[Elkanah he/him]

I need to find another way to rock the boat... hmm...

Dumlj gnd rnkg

Sorry Coda. I thought Striker and Coda were tied and I know Striker tends to be more active when given the chance, so I thought I was breaking a tie.... Then again, with the presence of first citizens, heirs, and deep reserve pilots; I shouldn't even have worried. I'd assume both Coda and Shanerockes were normal villagers, but I also have not had any contact from people claiming to be normal either (which might be for the best.) That either indicates people are being careful with their roles or there are no normal people. I'd like to think the former, but the latter is still up for debate I guess. 

I forgot to mention Sart's recommendation last cycle, while not necessarily the best idea for the village, is one I could see them suggesting regardless of their alignment. I have personally deemed it NAI. I kinda expect to be lynched soon, because I'm drawing all kinds of lines around who defends me and who I defend. Unfortunately, I am good and have very little information, so I'm afraid you'll get as much out of my lynch as we did Shanerocks. I'm actively trying to change that, though.

---------

As far as gut suspicions, Zillah's first post sat weird with me. Her subsequent posts haven't had the same effect, though, so maybe I'm just not used to playing with her yet.

13 hours ago, The_God_King said:

I can understand a small majority but having three votes seems like an interesting change from our 5 way tie@Elkanah

I disagree that three votes was a big swing, but it is at least notable that it's possible that either Abstrusity or I could have been defending one of StirkerEZ, Fifth Scholar, Xinoehp, Kidpen, Shanerockes. I can see an argument that I would work on a villain team with Striker or Fifth. Shanerockes is proven good. I haven't had much interaction with Kidpen. I have been doing fun code stuff with Xino in thread, and I don't know why I would do that if I was an elim. Striker has yet to interact much with anyone so it would be a scudshoot to try and guess who he was trying to defend after we make the assumption that he is evil. 

tl;dr there are too many possibilities for the Coda lynch to be helpful at this point. 

--------

I've gone back and forth on whether to bring this up, but I figure the elims have probably already realized this and it would be best if we all had access to it. Did anyone else notice that no votes were played with? Coda and Shanerockes were most likely not heirs. I voted late enough in the cycle that if Coda had been an heir, it was still prudent for an eliminator deep reserve pilot to remove a vote on any of the other five people on the block.

On 2/19/2020 at 1:00 AM, Elandera said:

Coda (3) - Elkanah, Kidpen, Abstrusity
StrikerEZ (1) - Rathmaskal
Fifth Scholar (1) - StrikerEZ
Xinoehp512 (1) - Araris Valerian
Kidpen (1) - Fifth Scholar
Shanerockes (1) - Sart

Unless we had a first citizen hit an heir, none of Elkanah, Kidpen, Rathmaskal, StrikerEZ, Araris Valerian, Fifth Scholar, Abstrusity, Sart is a first citizen.

None of Coda, Stirker, Fifth Scholar, Xinoehp, Kidpen, or Shanerockes are heirs.

If there is an eliminator Deep reserve, they did not protect the same list as above, which lends a slight village lean to Striker, Fifth Scholar, Xinoehp, and Kidpen. 

I'm sure there is more I can parse from this information, but it's late so I'll leave it there for now. What do you all think?

Edit: I guess there was something to be learned about the lynch after all.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Elkanah
Hypocrisy

[The_God_King]

4 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

Unless we had a first citizen hit an heir, none of Elkanah, Kidpen, Rathmaskal, StrikerEZ, Araris Valerian, Fifth Scholar, Abstrusity, Sart is a first citizen.

None of Coda, Stirker, Fifth Scholar, Xinoehp, Kidpen, or Shanerockes are heirs.

I don’t think this clears anyone role-wise. Both the first citizens are an active role so they could have chosen to not use their action. I believe that first citizens would be more eager to vote (to take advantage of their free action) and heirs wouldn’t be narrowed out at all.

personally, a tie would’ve been very interesting. It would have led to a very interesting vote negation/addition scenario we would’ve had to untangle. This day one lynch was probably the worst option for the village because we have no leads, no trust, and very little accusations. I assume at least one of the lynchers is an elim but that doesn’t help our odds overall.

I am rping cobb so I feel he would cut through all the charades. I am a bountiful gunner and probably the only one. I put that out there because I feel that is tactical knowledge that can be shared. I put myself in harms way. This does not prove I am elim or village though and I hope it helps get some conversation going.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Test wasn’t a total bust, so I thought I’d pop in. @Elkanah and @The_God_King, could you give a list of your suspicions? I’m currently reading you both as village, and I’d like to hear your thoughts beyond the role distribution implications of last cycle’s lynch. (Elkanah did mention suspicion of Zillah).

@Zillah, who would you lynch right now if you had to? We need people to vote, to create pressure on players, otherwise the elims can just hide.

Ditto to everyone else that hasn’t posted/voted yet. Also, y’all are missing out on the bonus chits. If you are planning on doing 2 analysis type posts to earn the cash, doing them at the start of the cycle will prompt discussion, and make future such posts easier. Not to mention that we will presumably all have more fun if we are more engaged in the thread.

I think I’ll try some dogfighting RP later this cycle.

[Kynedath]

So sorry for coming on so late in the cycle! I had a bit of a rough day yesterday, I didn't get on to post anything.

My suspicions are currently very weak, but at the top of my suspicion list lies Sart. Their proposal of the chit passing idea sounds weird and complicated and I don't really get it, but essentially it sounded like getting everyone to pass a chit to waste an action in an attempt to confirm actions that would be pretty easily counterable. In addition, once Fifth pointed out it was a mayory plan and that they didn't agree with it, Sart backed off right away. I see that kind of disowning of ideas as something a eliminator would do to avoid too much suspicion when an idea of theirs comes into play. Sart says that they did it to drum up discussion, but then immediately points out all of the flaws in the plan so that there is no longer any need for discussion. It all seems fishy to me.

[Elkanah he/him]

8 hours ago, The_God_King said:

the first citizens are an active role so they could have chosen to not use their action.

That is a solid point that I totally forgot. I guess we don't know for sure about the first citizens.

I still have Fifth, Striker, Xino, and Kidpen at very slightly trust because they weren't protected.

I'd like to read Araris as village because a lack of discussion helps elims and he is actively trying to avoid that. TGK is the same, but to a smaller extent. 

For now I'll vote for Rathmaskal. @RathmaskalYou only have the one post and I'd like to hear who you trust and who you suspect at this point in the game. I know there still isn't a lot to go off yet and I'm hoping poking you changes that.

[Kidpen he/him]

Gosh this is a hard game. 

Alright so I continue to think Abstrucity is village. I know that I'm not, and it doesn't feel like they were interacting with me like an elim would. 

Plus there's the fact that they voted first. More suspicious out of the Coda lynch is Elkanah, in my opinion. That extremely last minute post seemed to me like an attempt to solidify and prevent vote modification.

That being said I'm pretty OK with the Sart lynch.

[The_God_King]

3 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

@Elkanah and @The_God_King, could you give a list of your suspicions? I’m currently reading you both as village, and I’d like to hear your thoughts beyond the role distribution implications of last cycle’s lynch. (Elkanah did mention suspicion of Zillah).

Here are my suspicions:

all three who voted on Coda. @Elkanah@Kidpen@Abstrusity

Abstrusity was the initial vote so I'm a little less worried. Kidpen was the second vote and I feel the most suspicious towards them. Breaking the tie was an interesting move. Elkanah has me worried but less so than Kidpen. His continual posting and trying to encourage conversation also relieves some suspicions. His reasoning to vote isn't perfect and I'm actually feeling he jumped on specifically for the chits. Outside of this all my suspicions are very wobbly and don't deserve much attention, yet. 

everyone else has been quiet and I know if that doesn't change several inactives will get lynched in the next couple cycles. This is unfortunate and lack of information or participation is the surest way that the elim team wins.

 

[Kidpen he/him]

1 minute ago, The_God_King said:

I'm actually feeling he jumped on specifically for the chits. 

Yeah not gonna lie activity encouragers in games tend to make me consistently active but also I wait until the last minute.

[Elkanah he/him]

10 minutes ago, Kidpen said:

Alright so I continue to think Abstrucity is village. I know that I'm not,

not village?

10 minutes ago, Kidpen said:

More suspicious out of the Coda lynch is Elkanah, in my opinion. That extremely last minute post seemed to me like an attempt to solidify and prevent vote modification.

 A solid point and one I've pointed out myself. Although it only really works if Striker and I are on a team as I thought I was breaking a tie on the two of them. If I'd really been worried I could have put a second vote on Coda, but I wasn't. 

8 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

Here are my suspicions:

all three who voted on Coda. @Elkanah@Kidpen@Abstrusity

fair enough.

8 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

His reasoning to vote isn't perfect and I'm actually feeling he jumped on specifically for the chits.

Edit: as a means of encouraging discussion, @The_God_King, why is it that you suspect the people involved in the lynch? is it just because he came up village?

Edited February 20, 2020 by Elkanah
encourage discussion

[Kidpen he/him]

1 minute ago, Elkanah said:

not village?

Oh dang, this terrible slip up has outed me. Guess I'm dead now.

 

2 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

A solid point and one I've pointed out myself. Although it only really works if Striker and I are on a team as I thought I was breaking a tie on the two of them. If I'd really been worried I could have put a second vote on Coda, but I wasn't. 

Is this you claiming to be a First Citizen? Did you already do that and I didn't notice?

[Elkanah he/him]

1 minute ago, Kidpen said:

Is this you claiming to be a First Citizen? Did you already do that and I didn't notice?

no? 

1 minute ago, Kidpen said:

Oh dang, this terrible slip up has outed me. Guess I'm dead now.

 

XD

[The_God_King]

5 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

as a means of encouraging discussion, @The_God_King, why is it that you suspect the people involved in the lynch? is it just because he came up village?

lynching a villager makes any lynch seem suspect. The biggest thing was you and Kidpen voting near the end of the cycle with little discussion. Honestly, you would probably be viewed potentially elim either way. 

[Kidpen he/him]

Just now, Elkanah said:

no? 

So how exactly would you have put a second vote on Coda? I feel like there's something obvious here I'm missing.

[Elkanah he/him]

Just now, Kidpen said:

So how exactly would you have put a second vote on Coda? I feel like there's something obvious here I'm missing.

I merely hinted that I might be a first citizen right there, so no you didn't miss an earlier role claim.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

2 hours ago, Elkanah said:

I'd like to read Araris as village because a lack of discussion helps elims and he is actively trying to avoid that. TGK is the same, but to a smaller extent. 

I’ll just point out that this is NAI for me. I have more fun on both sides when people are more active.

[Rathmaskal he/him]

11 hours ago, Elkanah said:

I need to find another way to rock the boat... hmm...

 

I've gone back and forth on whether to bring this up, but I figure the elims have probably already realized this and it would be best if we all had access to it. Did anyone else notice that no votes were played with? Coda and Shanerockes were most likely not heirs. I voted late enough in the cycle that if Coda had been an heir, it was still prudent for an eliminator deep reserve pilot to remove a vote on any of the other five people on the block.

Unless we had a first citizen hit an heir, none of Elkanah, Kidpen, Rathmaskal, StrikerEZ, Araris Valerian, Fifth Scholar, Abstrusity, Sart is a first citizen.

None of Coda, Stirker, Fifth Scholar, Xinoehp, Kidpen, or Shanerockes are heirs.

If there is an eliminator Deep reserve, they did not protect the same list as above, which lends a slight village lean to Striker, Fifth Scholar, Xinoehp, and Kidpen. 

I'm sure there is more I can parse from this information, but it's late so I'll leave it there for now. What do you all think?

Edit: I guess there was something to be learned about the lynch after all.

Hmmm, interesting stuff.  (actually didn't notice the white text until I quoted...so glad I did)  Not sure I agree with this even giving a slight village lean to Fifth, Striker, xino, or Kidpen...but it's not an unreasonable assessment.

2 hours ago, Elkanah said:

For now I'll vote for Rathmaskal. @RathmaskalYou only have the one post and I'd like to hear who you trust and who you suspect at this point in the game. I know there still isn't a lot to go off yet and I'm hoping poking you changes that.

 

Then you had to go and ruin it...just when I was starting to like you. (Actually, you have a fair point.  Sorry, been trying to keep up with reading the thread, just a lot of busy going on...)

First off, I should consider myself humbled and moderately stupid.  Here I was thinking, "No way Elandera is going to count all the words from my RP to see if it's 149 or 150.."  Meanwhile, I was using word count to see where I was...and I'm sure she did as well so there was no 'counting' necessary.  *sigh* well played...I was so committed to trolling that I trolled myself.

--

Who do I trust?  Who do I suspect?

Well, I'm always a bit slow to trust people, but I'm kind of liking where Araris' head is at right now.

And to follow that up, @xinoehp512, what were you trying to accomplish by professing suspicions C1 but not voting?

We had a little over half the players vote C1, which if you exclude Coda who didn't check in at all, amounted to 8/13...not bad.  Considering that the other death (OK, the only death...while the first was an arrest...but they don't seem to have any functional difference...unless we find out later on that you can escape from captivity...) was from someone who didn't vote, we should be able to assume similar activity at the least this cycle.

I know it's beating a dead horse a bit, but the Coda wagon is clearly a bit off.  Lynching an inactive C1 is not a great look...other than bringing suspicion on the people who voted for that person, I don't see any value to the village.  The votes were Abstrusity > 21 minutes > Kidpen > 3 hours, 38 minutes > Elkanah > 17 minutes > end of cycle.  With that, I highly doubt that we have both Abstrusity and Kidpen on the elims, but one of them is very possible...Elkanah likely was trying to remove vote manipulation from the equation with the timing of that vote.  Just a question of for which side...  The only other vote during that time period was from Fifth.  Given that it was still 2-3 hours prior to cycle end, I'm not as suspicious as I was about to be if it was right at the end of the cycle.

I do want to circle back around to Sart's idea of chit passing.  Why not just do the chit passing but not include any item usage?  If everyone passes a chit, barring a hovercar existing, we would end up with no elim kill for the night.  Alternatively, we would run into the situation where there are elims back-to-back in the player list where one has to cover for the other...which would be useful as well once we catch someone.  Just a thought.

(There's a ninja around here, but I have other stuff to edit as well...so several of the comments above here are going to be after the ninja as well)

Ok, all that being said, Kidpen wins the flip with Abstrusity (I currently don't have anything to suspect one over the other and my dedication to this post has been quite interrupted).

[Araris Valerian he/him]

11 minutes ago, Rathmaskal said:

I do want to circle back around to Sart's idea of chit passing.  Why not just do the chit passing but not include any item usage?  If everyone passes a chit, barring a hovercar existing, we would end up with no elim kill for the night.  Alternatively, we would run into the situation where there are elims back-to-back in the player list where one has to cover for the other...which would be useful as well once we catch someone.  Just a thought.

I think, since being on the elim team isn’t an item, that the elim kill uses the “role action” slot, rather than the “item action” slot, which passing chits uses.

 

13 minutes ago, Rathmaskal said:

I know it's beating a dead horse a bit, but the Coda wagon is clearly a bit off.  Lynching an inactive C1 is not a great look...other than bringing suspicion on the people who voted for that person, I don't see any value to the village.  The votes were Abstrusity > 21 minutes > Kidpen > 3 hours, 38 minutes > Elkanah > 17 minutes > end of cycle.  With that, I highly doubt that we have both Abstrusity and Kidpen on the elims, but one of them is very possible...Elkanah likely was trying to remove vote manipulation from the equation with the timing of that vote.  Just a question of for which side...  The only other vote during that time period was from Fifth.  Given that it was still 2-3 hours prior to cycle end, I'm not as suspicious as I was about to be if it was right at the end of the cycle.

I think there is a general perception that a lynch is a good thing in and of itself. Furthermore, there is a general reluctance to vote for active players based on minimal suspicion. Combined, these two make it reasonable to lynch an inactive, especially D1. The first point is false, because the lynch is valuable to 1) kill elims and 2) create pressure to drive discussion. Since I don’t think there is a strong correlation between inactivity and elim alignment (perhaps a weak negative correlation in our current meta), lynching an inactive is somewhat pointless (it doesn’t create pressure on anyone who is willing to respond to pressure on themself).

I think the only thing to be gleaned from the lynch would be if one of the players with one vote on them flipped elim, we might have reason to suspect the Coda lynch, due to elims worrying about vote shenanigans.

And after rereading this, I see all of my paragraphs save this one start with “I think”. Just want to clarify that these are statements I am pretty solidly in favor of.

[Abstrusity]

10 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I think, since being on the elim team isn’t an item, that the elim kill uses the “role action” slot, rather than the “item action” slot, which passing chits uses.

 

Quote

• The Disputers have access to a kill every cycle. Any member can use their role action to submit the kill.

That quote is from Elandera in the game rules, so the Disputer kill is indeed tied to a role action rather than an item action. Hello my adventurous friend. How's it going?

Also, sorry I haven't been able to keep up. Life has kinda impaled me in the jugular, metaphorically speaking. I've been having a good time.

Twelve hours later, Rayne was back at the base, pacing one of the empty hallways. What did it mean? He swore he'd heard a voice that day, when he was blasting through the Krell. That voice had sounded like... Kid's voice. He needed answers, and needed them quick. He asked a passing DDF member if he'd seen Kid since the impromptu battle the day before. The man shrugged and walked off.

Scud! Where was that troublemaker? He stalked off, determined to find him. He was going to get those answers.

Two hours later, he sat down to luncheon. He hadn't found him, despite his efforts. No one had seen Kid anywhere. He absentmindedly flung a few scraps of mealy victuals into his gullet as he considered the facts. Kid had landed soon after the battle, which was now being called the 'Blizzard of the Dead'. A fitting enough title. A thought struck him then. If he had heard Kid's voice in his head, maybe Kid could hear his. Hello? he thought. Are you there? Where are you?

[Rathmaskal he/him]

2 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I think, since being on the elim team isn’t an item, that the elim kill uses the “role action” slot, rather than the “item action” slot, which passing chits uses.

Yep, you are correct.  I missed that in my rules read-through.  Thanks for the correction.

2 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I think there is a general perception that a lynch is a good thing in and of itself. Furthermore, there is a general reluctance to vote for active players based on minimal suspicion. Combined, these two make it reasonable to lynch an inactive, especially D1. The first point is false, because the lynch is valuable to 1) kill elims and 2) create pressure to drive discussion. Since I don’t think there is a strong correlation between inactivity and elim alignment (perhaps a weak negative correlation in our current meta), lynching an inactive is somewhat pointless (it doesn’t create pressure on anyone who is willing to respond to pressure on themself).

I think the only thing to be gleaned from the lynch would be if one of the players with one vote on them flipped elim, we might have reason to suspect the Coda lynch, due to elims worrying about vote shenanigans.

And after rereading this, I see all of my paragraphs save this one start with “I think”. Just want to clarify that these are statements I am pretty solidly in favor of.

I didn't say lynching was a bad thing...I didn't say lynching C1 was a bad thing...I said lynching an inactive C1 was a bad look.  Instead of getting information about interactions between the player who was lynched and other players in the game, we get a small amount of information on three people.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

2 hours ago, Rathmaskal said:

I didn't say lynching was a bad thing...I didn't say lynching C1 was a bad thing...I said lynching an inactive C1 was a bad look.  Instead of getting information about interactions between the player who was lynched and other players in the game, we get a small amount of information on three people.

Yeah, I guess I was trying to explain why it would be both unhelpful and NAI at the same time. I also mentioned that the D1 lynch is probably only useful if it was an attempt to save one of the other players that had a vote. Since nobody seems to agree with me on Xino, and since there isn't much time left in the cycle (for me at least), I'll switch to Kidpen.

---

"Fade, you've got two on your tail!"

Araris shot his lightlance into a piece of falling debris, pivoted 360 degrees, and took down the Krell's shields with his EMP. A few seconds later two disruptor blasts from his wingmate, callsign Gunner, turned the enemy ships into their own clouds of debris. This sort of fighting was relatively new to Araris, but he could somehow sense the metal in the debris, and that of the Krell, which gave him a slight edge in his reactions. As far as he could tell, it wasn't the same as the rumors of the abilities some of the humans on this world possessed. He could only sense metal, not the minds of others. As Araris pulled out of his maneuver, he spotted three Krell change course to target Gunner after watching his marksmanship. 

"Gunner, three Krell, two above and one below. I'll..."

Destructor blasts from all three Krell converged on Gunner's ship, overwhelming the shields and sending it into a spin.

"Eject! Gunner, eject!"

"Can't do that Fade. Couldn't live with myself. I've almost..." A small cloud of dust erupted from the surface where Gunner's ship had impacted. Araris closed his eyes in pain for a moment before diving toward the lower Krell ship. The DDF method of leadership is just fine. We should all be happy to take orders if it keeps the Lifebusters away. But bloody crows, good men are dying because of how we train our pilots. Not to mention that we are systematically killing off our most eager warriors. Someone needs to talk to Ironsides about this.

[Abstrusity]

22 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

On cycle 1, votes generally have little justification behind them. Making a post where you say you suspect someone, but don't actually vote on them, seems like a way to participate in discussion without doing anything concrete. I also pointed out that several other players were engaged in similar behavior.

This is why I voted C1. I voted for Coda because I honestly wasn't suspicious enough of anyone to actively want them gone. But now I again face the same issue. No one seems suspicious, and neither the discussion nor the lynch itself has really given me much information. I feel almost paralyzed.

[Kynedath]

I don't feel like there is enough reason to suspect those who voted on Coda, there is plenty of reason that they would have voted on them, and their voting didn't seem to be of hypothetical use to a potential elim.

[Zillah she/her]

Araris Valerian (1) Fifth Scholar

Xinoehp (0) Araris Valerian

Sart (1) Kynedath

Rathmaskal (1) Kidpen

Elkanah (1) Kidpen 

Kidpen (3) The God King, Rathmaskal, Araris Valerian

 

I'd also like to note that it was a six way tie between the people being voted for until Rath and Araris joined on the Kidpen Lynch. 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Since nobody is really discussing things, there isn't much more to do than pick someone mostly at random. Also, as opposed the Alvron, I prefer to not let the Gods of Luck and Chance decide lynches. There are still 4.5 hours left in the cycle, which is plenty of time for someone to argue for an alternate lynch.