Fifth of Daybreak Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 (edited) So we know that it's difficult to impossible to awaken something that wasn't, at some point living. How does this apply to soulcast bodies on Roshar? Would an awakener be able to reproduce Kalad's Phantoms on Roshar without having to use bones as a focus in the statue, since, before the soulcasting, the body had been alive? Edited June 12, 2014 by EMTrevor 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I have often wondered this. I suppose it would depend on what gets changed in Soulcasting. Does the body get changed in all three realms or is it only the Physical? If its only in the Physical then it should be possible but if it is changed in all three then maybe, but probably only if the Awakener had a lot of Breaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jag519 Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Well we know it's also changed in the cognitive realm, I have no idea if it would change in the spirit realm. I'm wondering of this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cstryon Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I'm thinking just as hard as awakening something that wasn't living. We don't know much about soulcasting yet, but I got the impression that you really were forcing a change to all three aspects. We know it's at first a cognitive change. Stick tells us that much. And the cognitive change, makes the physical change. As far as spiritual, I don't know, but I think, since we know we can chop the spirit up, add, remove change it, fairly easy (and messy), I'm thinking that the cognitive and physical change would force the spirit to change. I might need a better understanding of the spiritual aspect, and if that would change easily. Also, is awakening affecting the spirit at all? If it didn't, than soulcasting it to something that's none living/never lived, means that the spiritual aspect would be no help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I always thought that the Spiritual realm is where Breath sat, so it should affect that realm first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistLord Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 I'm very curious about the idea that it may have to do with the realmatics of the body. Playing the devil's advocate, it may also be that by 'once living' means organic matter, though Vasher's extremely advanced knowledge of realmatics also makes me think he knows enough of science to say organic if he meant it. Also, it may have to do with how close the object is to the Awakener himself (e.g. how Commands must be spoken in native tongue, how Awakened objects take on a shape of a hand or limb, how adding a piece of hair lowers the amount of breath substantially, etc,.). Personally, I'm more inclined with the latter. I guess that means if Nightblood could ever Awaken, he would find it easier to Awaken metal (Now there's a thought ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cstryon Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Merciful Domi, I can imagine some fairly horrible things "awakening" to Nightblood's commands if he were to ever get that ability! Nightblood's views on what life is, like human values, and "evil" might just be to loosely translated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifth of Daybreak Posted June 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Ahhhh! My first confirmed theory! I'm so happy! 11) From EMTrevor: Would an Awakener be able to awaken a corpse that was soulcast into stone more easily because it used to be living, thereby being able to create lifeless similar to Kalad’s Phantoms without having bones in the framework? Yes. That would definitely work. Source: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/06/brandon-sanderson-answers-your-questions-about-the-way-of-kings 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Nice, something tells me this has probably occurred to Vasher , he may have a few constructs such as these hidden in his closet in the shattered plain warcamps . Oh dear I just had a horrifically fun idea. Soul cast a corpse into Aluminum. If Aluminum is indeed also the unforgable material in Emperor's Soul then you have something that is practically godlike in terms of durability. Mistborn, Elantrians and a few other magic system peoples would have a seriously hard time taking down an Aluminum Lifeless... Give it some shard plate and a shard blade... and you have something unstoppable. Something the aforementioned world hopper could easily manage. Take it even further, awaken it in the same manner as Nightblood only you use the body of someone who was Honorable and good and you could make a Lifeless that can truly think for itself, act and fulfill its commands well better than its predecessor. Dalinar dies, soulcast him into an aluminum statue, gather a thousand breaths, awaken him with the "Destroy evil" or "Protect the Cosmere" command. Arm him... sit back with some popcorn. Edited June 12, 2014 by Darkarma 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Aluminum is far from "godlike in terms of durability" - the unforgeable metal, ralkalest, is only resistant to magic, not to physical influence; it's brittle. I imagine a few men with maces or hammers could easily take down an Aluminum Lifeless. Add a few more people if the creature has Shards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifth of Daybreak Posted June 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 We'll soulcast Dalinar into Vibranium then. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 If your going for other metal them you'd probably be better off going with something like Tungsten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Why not use Stone? That would make More Sense. It can't be allomanticly Affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Why not use Stone? That would make More Sense. It can't be allomanticly Affected. Stone would be allomatically innert but you'd also lose out on being able to repair it as well. Also metal has a bit more give when it comes to deformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Would it be possible to soulcast a outter shell of aluminum with an inner core of "name that metal"? Then you have the core strength of the more powerful metal, but also the magic resistant properties of aluminum. Not sure if you could soulcast a body in such a fashion, but if so, that would be the way I would go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I don't think you can Soulcast some parts of an object into one thing, while leaving the rest untouched / Soulcasting the rest into another. I imagine it would be very difficult even if it were possible, because it would require you to force the Cognitive Aspect of the object to essentially divide itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 hmmmm, could you soulcast the body as metal, and then the armor as aluminum, and then awaken the body like a lifeless, while awakening the armor to mimic the lifeless's actions? I know I am making things needlessly complicated, but it also helps me learn more about the magic system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 If you can Awaken aluminum in the first place, I guess so. But even without the weirdness of aluminum, Awakening metal is pretty hard. Plus, if we are still talking about Shardplate here, I am going to say that it's damnation near impossible to Awaken that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Reader Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I think that once you're using aluminum and something else there is no point to the aluminum anymore. the purpose of the aluminum is to be undetectable, but the second metal could still be detected by allomancers. If you want it to be immune to allomancy, you're stuck with the whole thing being aluminum. Otherwise it's like giving someone an aluminum gun and then still wearing a regular belt buckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifth of Daybreak Posted June 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Whose to say you would even be able to allomantically affect an awakened metal corpse? If enough of the spiritual essence remains for awakening, it would most likely have the same effect on dampening allomancy. Not to mention the increased investiture for awakening it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistLord Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 The only thing I'm worried about is what would happen if you Awaken Aluminium. It does have funny effects on magic systems, after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 I think that once you're using aluminum and something else there is no point to the aluminum anymore. the purpose of the aluminum is to be undetectable, but the second metal could still be detected by allomancers. If you want it to be immune to allomancy, you're stuck with the whole thing being aluminum. Otherwise it's like giving someone an aluminum gun and then still wearing a regular belt buckle. Not necessarily. Szeth could not use stormlight(more along the lines of more difficult but still) on someone in shardplate, and stormlight doesn't need to affect metal. Further, someone just needs a band of aluminum around their head not to be affected by emotional allomancy. So with that line of reasoning, just a coat of aluminum could potentially make a body of metal allomantically immune, or VERY difficult to "play" with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Szeth's problems with Lashing Shardbearers probably comes more from how Invested the Plates are, not from their maybe-aluminum components. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cstryon Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Soulcasted lifeless metal golems? Things just got weird and scary. And a bit awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Um... If you want an indestructible killing machine then just Soulcast the body into solid carbon. Awaken the body, arm it with Shardblade/plate. Good luck breaking carbon with a hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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