Shardic Number Theory Revisited (Part One - Shards)

[Tempus]

Shardic Number Theory Revisited

Part One - Shards each have a number

 

 
Premise
 
Kicking around for a long time has been a theory that each shard has a number associated with them, a specifically meaningful number. I've had a copious amount of notes on the topic for a while, so I thought that now would be a good time to start and post a few theories on em'. For convenience sake, I've divided it into three parts - I might follow it up with a post on Shardic Colour theory as well. The first part, displayed here today, will be the traditional approach, that each Shard has a number that is special to them.^[1]
 
 
Hypothesis
 
Each Shard has a number which is important to them, often Realmatically. It is possible these are related to the order of Shattering, or the Shattering in another fashion.
 
 
Known Shards from Published Works
 
Preservation - Sixteen
 

Preservation, in this theory, is the most simple and straight forward. We have Word of Brandon that Preservation used sixteen as his number, because it would be significant to his followers - it was apparently an important number to them.^[2][3] It is also the known number of ordinary Allomantic metals. There are various appearances of sixteen^[4]. No other Shard has such a nicely tied number.

 
Ruin - Eleven
 

We don't have as much concrete info for Ruin, but there are some potentially significant numbers. We know that Inquisitors needed Eleven spikes. We also know that the metal intended to topple the Lord Ruler (the one Preserving the Empire) was the Eleventh Metal, and was influenced by Ruin through Kelsier's teacher. Koloss are also described in Hero of Ages as being eleven feet tall. Ruin's number could very well be eleven, in the absence of better candidates.

 

Harmony - Sixteen again?
 

Harmony is two Shards, technically. In Alloy of Law, we see lots of sixteens: Wax is the sixteenth of his line, his address is Sixteen Ladrian Place, Wax snapped when he was sixteen, etc. Eleven is not found at all in Alloy of Law. 

 
Endowment - Five
 

Endowment is a little easier. We have quite a few important instances of the number five. The Returned are at the fifth Heightening with a single Breath. There were Five Scholars, of which Vasher was one. Austrism promotes living your life according to the Five Visions, an important religious concept. Lightsong Returned five years prior to the events of Warbreaker. Vivenna receives about 500 Breaths from Lemex. There were 25 Returned Gods in the Court during the events of Warbreaker. The rebellion began five years ago. Lightsong deals in fives all the time - randomly grabbing five lemons, looking at five painting before giving up, getting points in that game he played that were in the five hundreds, or ended in five. In addition, there were five God Kings in the history of Hallandren, and approximately five hundred years since people began to Awaken. Nightblood is also five feet long. Fifths of color are considered harmonic perfection in Hallandren.

 

Yep, five is pretty good for Endowment.

 

Dominion - Three or Four
 

Dominion is not terribly clear cut. The best options are three and four. For three, Hrathen was given three months to covert Arelon. Three hundred years since Fjorden was founded after the collapsed previous empire. The fallen Elantris was original dominated by three gangs. There are three original gods: Shu-Korath, Shu-Keseg, and Shu-Dereth. Wyrn the King, the founding text of Fjorden, is three thousand lines long. Sarene had three engagements, and three husbands in the course of Elantris. Shai had a three month deadline to fix the Emperor.

 

For four, there have been four long-live emperors of Fjorden. Four vials of poison were delivered to Hrathen. The poison took four days to clear up, and one day to take effect (five days total). Kaise knows four languages, and is described as 'Domineering' (Dominion is only used in regards to Dilaf and Fjorden, other than that instance). Shai's unforgeable prison has fourty four types of stone.

 

Devotion - Three or Five
 

Like Dominion, Devotion is tough. Best options are three and five. For three, Aons have three core lines. The Three Virgins are a religious figure in Teod. Aons should be drawn with three fingers pressed together. Again, three Shu-gods.

 

For five, there are five domes, and five wings in the Palace of Elantris. Elantris itself is made up of five cities. The Elantris University has five buildings. Sarene began to paint five years ago, at the same time Raoden began to oppose his father. Sarene is 25. Shai has five Essence Marks, there are five arbiters per faction in the Rose kingdom, and Shai finished five days prior to the deadline.

 

Honor - Ten
 

If Honor has a number, it is ten. Ten Heralds, ten surges, ten Radiants, ten Highprinces, plus many, many other sets of ten. There are so many tens. Or is it? More on this tomorrow.

 

Cultivation - Fourteen, Six, Five, Others?
 

Cultivation is particularly tough. We have very little information. Fourteen is an option - there are fourteen legs on a Greatshell, and Lift is fourteen. Six is possible - six legs on an axehound, six years spent on the Shattered Plains. There are also five discovered groupings of Fabrials, and that may be related to Cultivation.

 

Odium - Nine
 

The best bet for Odium is probably nine. There were 99 Desolations (or possibly nine, as I've theorized). Nine Heralds abandoned the Oathpact. Nine of ten people were killedthe Desolation Nohadon's fought. The last Desolation was 4500 years ago, which is conveniently nine times five hundred. See above linked theory for more on that. In unrelated nines Kaladin's flashbacks go back nine years, and there are nine colours of spheres in their currency.

 

The only known length of a Desolation is eleven years, and eleven times nine is ninety nine, which is entirely beside the point, but there might be a link to eleven as well.

 
 
 
Non-canon Shards, and Shards from Unpublished Works
 
Mythwalker - Seven, Eight, Nine, Eleven, Sixteen
 

The Shard in Mythwalker is unknown. The book was never finished, and parts of the book were taken for Warbreaker, Mistborn, and a small bit for Way of Kings. Despite this book not being canon, and never finished, it was written long after many Realmatic concepts were throughly established, so if there are Shardic numbers, Mythwalker should have evidence of one.

 

The number in Mythwalker is probably eight. There are eight great houses. There are eight major magic abilities. That said, there are eleven different powers evident in the book (reminiscent of Mistborn, and one is even a God power potentially). The number of houses is actually unclear. There were eight, but also possibly eight minor houses. That would be sixteen. Also, each house may have a female and a male power, that could be sixteen major powers as well. Lastly, one house dies early on, meaning there are seven houses - there are also seven septs of rank that they inform us of. Those numbers are all possibilities.

 
Bavadin - Five, Eight, Nine
 

We don't know much about Bavadin, but there are a few options. There are five shshshshsh, and a shshshshsh can have five shshshshsh. The religious texts on shshshshsh are five hundred years old. There are eight shshshshsh, who elect eight shshshshsh, and shshshshsh spent eight years training. The shshshshsh religion sends eight shshshshsh at shshshshsh per day. There are also nine ranks of shshshshsh, nine people in shshshshsh's expedition, a maximum of nine shshsh without over-shshshshsh, and nine shshshshsh if you count the beggars. This paragraph brought to you by the Librarians.

 

 shshshshsh and shshshshsh - Three, four six
 

It's hard to talk about an unpublished work without talking about it! Suffice it to say, Aether was a book that was heavily cannibalized, and the shards in that book are definitely non-canon, and were partially reused for Mistborn in a very different form. All of that is in WoB. The three numbers in the book that have some sort of religious or realmatic significance seem to be three, four, or six. No telling what belongs with which.

 

The above four Shards, while not canon, do show that the books at least have a tendency towards some significant numbers. Which is general support for Shardic number theory.
 

 

Conclusion
 
There are lots of unknowns with Shardic number theory, and lots of problems. That said, the above conclusions look pretty good... or do they? Part two can be found here, with a whole different take on things.
 
 
References:

 
 

THOUGHT
It seems that certain colors and numbers appear frequently in specific cosmere books, like the number 5 in Warbreaker or red and blue in Elantris. Do these colors or numbers happen to refer to a specific shard, and if so, would they be consistent across the cosmere?
BRANDON SANDERSON
Certain colors and numbers are important in reference to certain shards.

 
 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Well, what was going on here was a clue established and set by Leras before he died. He wanted something to indicate—should he be unable to inform mankind—that what was happening wasn't natural, but instead something intentional. He worried that men wouldn't be able to realize they were being made into Allomancers.
And so, the mist was set to do something very specific, and has to do with the interaction between the human soul, Allomancy, and the sixteen metals.

 
 

BRANDON SANDERSON[/size]

Preservation wanted Atium and Malatium to be of use to the people, as he recognized that it would be a very powerful tool—and that using it up could help defeat Ruin. But he also recognized that sixteen was a mythological important number, and felt it would make the best sign for his followers. So he took out the most unlikely (difficult to make and use) metals for his sign to his followers. But that doesn't have much to do with Hemalurgy's use here.

 
 

CHAOS

In the most recent Hero of Ages annotation, you said that Preservation chose Vin to be the recipient of the power, just as Preservation had chosen Alendi previously (thus, this was why Ruin had manipulated the Prophecies). Was Alendi also chosen precisely sixteen years before the Well of Ascension's power returned?

BRANDON SANDERSON
Yes. He was chosen exactly sixteen years before, but he was a bit older then Vin when he was chosen.

 

Edited May 24, 2014 by Tempus

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

We don't know much about Bavadin, but there are a few options. There are five shshshshsh, and a shshshshsh can have five shshshshsh. The religious texts on shshshshsh are five hundred years old. There are eight shshshshsh, who elect eight shshshshsh, and shshshshsh spent eight years training. The shshshshsh religion sends eight shshshshsh at shshshshsh per day. There are also nine ranks of shshshshsh, nine people in shshshshsh's expedition, a maximum of nine shshsh without over-shshshshsh, and nine shshshshsh if you count the beggars. This paragraph brought to you by the Librarians.

Wow, that's so full of spoilers. We need more 'shshshshsh' in there.

Anyways, I heartily dislike the idea of each shard having a number. It's the planets that all seem to have numbers associated with them. For example, Roshar seems pretty tied to ten, not just Honor. There's thirty magic systems, or three sets of ten. There's the Ten Deaths, the Ten Fools. I very much doubt all those magic systems come from Honor. If each one had their own number, each one should have a different number of powers, but they don't. It's the same in Mistborn, where both Allomancy and Hemalurgy are based on sixteen. For each shard to have a different number, it would mean that only one of the shards gets to have his own number in the magic system. How would that even be decided? Not by power– Preservation is weaker than Ruin due to spending it on the humans, yet Preservation has stronger ties to sixteen that we've seen than Ruin does.

[Moogle]

Thanks for collecting everything, Tempus.

 

Preservation/Endowment/Honor seem very solid at 16/5/10.

 

Cultivation could be 5, for the Five Ideals of the KR, though given my issues with the First Ideal, I wouldn't be surprised to find it as being 4.

 

For example, Roshar seems pretty tied to ten, not just Honor. There's thirty magic systems, or three sets of ten. There's the Ten Deaths, the Ten Fools. I very much doubt all those magic systems come from Honor.

 

Why? Voidbinding seems to be Odium's mirror of Surgebinding, and probably involves some measure of Honor in it. The third system involves fabrials, and may very well just be the use of Surgebinding fabrials, like Soulcasters, in which case it's just an offshoot of Surgebinding. I could see all the magic systems as being powered partially by Honor.

 

As to the Ten Deaths and whatnot, we know that the Ten Deaths are not Voidbringers, so we don't even know if they're related to Odium or if the Ten Deaths could be a part of Cultivation+Honor's system that Odium took over for Desolations. In fact, I would support the Ten Deaths as being corrupted Nahel bonding spren: take one of the spren representing each of the Essences, corrupt it with Odium, and watch it go! Sja-anat apparently corrupted spren to make them into thunderclasts, after all.

 

The Ten Fools is a Vorin thing, and as Vorinism worships the Almighty (Honor), it should not be surprising that ten pops up anywhere an ardent could feasibly have been.

 

I also note that the number of Unmade is fixed, and it is not ten. We know of six possible candidates, and have two (Nergaoul/Moelach) basically confirmed. (Also: tangent, but Nergaoul/Moelach fit very well with Parshendi names. Venli, Eshonai, Nergaoul, Rlain, Moelach. I detect a similarity!)

 

Argent has said Brandon talked about "Honor's Ten Purposes" or something of the like.

 

 It's the same in Mistborn, where both Allomancy and Hemalurgy are based on sixteen. For each shard to have a different number, it would mean that only one of the shards gets to have his own number in the magic system. How would that even be decided? Not by power– Preservation is weaker than Ruin due to spending it on the humans, yet Preservation has stronger ties to sixteen that we've seen than Ruin does.

 

I think it's a mistake to assume that Hemalurgy is based on sixteen. Brandon has been very coy in answering whether you could have a gemstone spike, for example, and I think stealing a KR's powers could/should involve using their gem type as a spike. In this case, Hemalurgy is not bound to sixteen at all, it's just how you use Hemalurgy on Scadrial. There's also the possibility that there's a special number of Hemalurgic bindpoints or the like; we'll just have to wait for the Hemalurgic table that we've been promised.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Moogle

[Khyrindor he/him]

Are we 100% WoB positive that Hemalurgy is based off Ruin? It could be that he just "helped" with Allomancy, (hence the Atium) and Hemalurgy is a thing that any Shardworld can have. 

EDIT: And the only reason he took over the Spiked...things, is because he wasn't as Invested and therefore stronger than Preservation. Which is why Harmony now can do that, as well.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Khyrindor

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Are we 100% WoB positive that Hemalurgy is based off Ruin? It could be that he just "helped" with Allomancy, (hence the Atium) and Hemalurgy is a thing that any Shardworld can have. 

EDIT: And the only reason he took over the Spiked...things, is because he wasn't as Invested and therefore stronger than Preservation. Which is why Harmony now can do that, as well.

 

Yes, we are.  Sazed comes right out and says it in the HoA epigraphs:

 

 

Hemalurgy is of Ruin. It destroys. By taking abilities from one person and giving them to another—in reduced amounts—power is actually lost. In line with Ruin's own appointed purpose—breaking down the universe into smaller and smaller pieces—Hemalurgy gives great gifts, but at a high cost.

 

Yes, this is an in-word "document" but this is being said by the person holding Ruin, if anyone were to understand its powers it would be Sazed.

 

There is also this, where Brandon specifically says he designed Hemalurgy to evoke the power of Ruin:

 

 

Hemalurgy came from the image of Inquisitors first, then developed as a need to integrate it in with the other two in a way that evoked the power of "Ruin" rather than the power of Preservation. I figured that Ruin would steal, and it was a great way to add a third magic without having to overload people with a whole new set of powers. The process of writing this series, since I did all three books together, was an interesting one, and I made a lot of connections as I went. Some of the latest things on the timeline were figuring out how to fit atium and the Preservation nuggets into the already built framework. But I don't know if I can give you an exact list. Partially because there would just be too many spoilers in it.

(source)

[Sirce Luckwielder he/him]

This is just a theory, but I think the Skadrial number is actually 2, or rather the powers of 2. Each metal is bound to another in a pair. Iron is bound to Steel, Tin is bound to Pewter, etc. There are 16 metals (not including the god metals) 2^4=16. There are 8 (2^3) basic metals and 8 higher metals. Each of the base sixteen metals are placed into 4 (2^2) subgroups, such as temporal, physical, etc. Each of these 4 subgroups contains 4 metals. For example: the physical subgroup contains iron, steel, tin, and pewter. There are two Shards on Skadrial (Harmony still holds both). So far as we know, there are only two major continents on Skadrial (I am pretty sure of this anyway). In Alloy of Law people can have up to two powers: Feruchemy and Allomancy.

All of this is fine and dandy, this can all just derived from Brandon's categorizing. However, when I saw that the Well of Ascension refills every 1024 years that clinched this idea for me. 2^10=1024. 10 is most definitely a key number in the cosmere, not just on Roshar. There are, after all, ten Shardworlds, ten dominances in the Final Empire, and ten great houses.

I don't know if this is on purpose or if I am pulling at strings. To me though, it makes sense. I'm not sure if there are more instances of the number 2 in the books, since it has been a while since I read them. If anybody has anything else to support this I am happy to hear about it. Maybe in the number of soldiers in Elend's army or other things?

[Darkness he/him]

"Endowment - Five
 

Endowment is a little easier. We have quite a few important instances of the number five. The Returned are at the fifth Heightening with a single Breath. There were Five Scholars, of which Vasher was one. Austrism promotes living your life according to the Five Visions, an important religious concept. Lightsong Returned five years prior to the events of Warbreaker. Vivenna receives about 500 Breaths from Lemex. There were 25 Returned Gods in the Court during the events of Warbreaker. The rebellion began five years ago. Lightsong deals in fives all the time - randomly grabbing five lemons, looking at five painting before giving up, getting points in that game he played that were in the five hundreds, or ended in five. In addition, there were five God Kings in the history of Hallandren, and approximately five hundred years since people began to Awaken. Nightblood is also five feet long. Fifths of color are considered harmonic perfection in Hallandren."

 

Sorry, Nightblood is 5 feet long? Where is that from? I thought Nightblood was "heavier than a sword that length should be"... a normal 5 ft sword would be heavy enough! I love the theory by the way!

[Tempus]

Sirce Dawnweaver - check out parts two and three, one of where I look at Scadrial having the number 2 associated with preservation, and 8 associated with Ruin, with results similar to the mathematical patterns you also attempt to negotiate through powers. I also note many other associations you brought up - good thinking overall!

 

Sadly in the end I conclude that Shardic numbers aren't a concrete thing. Brandon says that Shards develop colours that aren't necessarily fixed but occur relationally. Ruin is black and Preservation is white not because they are associated with those colours, but because they are diametrically opposed and so their manifestations take on those properties. My internal leading theory right now is that Shardic numbers are the same - not causal, but instead reactionary. The patterns of the numbers occur due to specific circumstances of the planets, Shards, and their interactions, and not because of any particular cosmic specification reliant on magical constant integers.

 

 

Darkness - I can't recall the exact passage. I greped all Brandon texts, quotes, and annotations for keywords like 'five', 'fifth', 'fifty', 'penta', etc, etc. and then read all the relevant passages to see if they had even a passing significance. If you do the same I'm sure you can locate the specific text but my notes are losts to the mists of my backup harddrive.

[Sirce Luckwielder he/him]

Oops. I didn't see the link. Thanks Tempus.

[Senor Feesh]

As an enormous pedant, I feel compelled to point out that Shu-keseg, Shu-korath and Shu-dereth are religions, not gods.

[Shard of Adonalsium]

I think the reason why eleven never really showed up in AOL is because Preservation was kind of the dominant side of Harmony.

[Battah'elin]

I remember something about Honor having ten purposes (possibly reflected in the ten Radiant Orders (Justice, Mercy, Passion, Unity etc?) but anything further was RAFO'd. Perhaps Ruin's number is 1? The symmetry of perfect opposition to Preservation would make sense, Ruin has one "purpose" (whatever that means) (destruction), and one (probably) figures prominently in Mistborn (one Lord Ruler). 

[Master_Moridin he/him]

I remember something about Honor having ten purposes (possibly reflected in the ten Radiant Orders (Justice, Mercy, Passion, Unity etc?) but anything further was RAFO'd. Perhaps Ruin's number is 1? The symmetry of perfect opposition to Preservation would make sense, Ruin has one "purpose" (whatever that means) (destruction), and one (probably) figures prominently in Mistborn (one Lord Ruler). 

 

Here's the quote

 

Brandon Sanderson (Paraphrased)

Brandon talked about something he called "Honor's purposes" or maybe "Honor's Purposes," and how they are the reason 10 is such a holy and dominant number - I assumed it meant Honor has (had) 10 of those Purposes. It was heavily implied in the conversation that Odium, if he has similar Purposes, does not have 10 of them.

(source)

 

Would be interesting if each Shard has a set of Purposes and that's what they contribute to the number creation.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Master_Moridin

[natc]

I think the reason why eleven never really showed up in AOL is because Preservation was kind of the dominant side of Harmony.

If anything unless Harmony is outputting atium elsewhere Ruin is stronger by default.