Honorless he/him Posted November 9, 2019 Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) Can Allomancy be used in the Cognitive Realm? In Secret History, Kelsier cannot use Allomancy while in the Cognitive Realm. I realize this could also be due to him not having any connection with the Physical Realm as a Cognitive Shadow but he also noted that "the souls of metal and men are the same", both glowing when viewed from the Cognitive Realm. I simply took it to mean that Allomancy doesn't work in the Cognitive but now I'm not so sure. After all, metal can be brought to the Cognitive Realm, but can they be burned while in the Cognitive Realm? Same question about Feruchemy. Can one store or tap an attribute in the Cognitive Realm? I think yes... With Hemalurgy, I want to ask who fuels it? I mean Hemalurgy is Ruin's magic, I think Ruin only fuels the theft and grafting of the stolen attributes, and that he does not provide the Investiture to fuel any stolen Investiture art, that either the original Shard still provides the necessary Investiture or that it goes through Ruin somehow, who corrupts the Investiture then passes it to the Hemalurgist. Preservation used Ruin's Investiture in the form of Atium to fuel Allomancy, but how did it also work with Feruchemy, which is of both Ruin and Preservation? I understood the concept of Atium as just a source of Investiture within Preservation's system of Allomancy but what about Hemalurgy? Trell is doing the reverse with Trellium in Ruin's system, now Harmony's system, of Hemalurgy. Shouldn't Harmony be able to sense something? The use of Hemalurgy isn't instantaneous, it's a two step process: first you have to spike someone's attributes, then you have to spike yourself. I would say Harmony should be able to sense both, even if all he's providing the Investiture for is the theft and the grafting. Plus, at the end of 'Bands of Mourning', he told Wax that "[Harmony] always take the time to have this walk". Yet he missed the spiked souls? Don't tell me that the Set managed to keep the spiked ones alive after doing that! Edited November 9, 2019 by Honorless 3
KandraAllomancer he/him Posted November 9, 2019 Posted November 9, 2019 56 minutes ago, Honorless said: Plus, at the end of 'Bands of Mourning', he told Wax that "[Harmony] always take the time to have this walk". He missed the spiked souls? Don't tell me that the Set managed to keep the spiked alive after doing that! Trell's Faceless Immortal informs Mr Suit that he'll be allowed to serve in another Realm before his death. I would assume Trell has the ability to turn people into Cognitive Shadows 1 hour ago, Honorless said: I simply took it to mean that Allomancy doesn't work in the Cognitive but now I'm not so sure. After all, metal can be brought to the Cognitive Realm, but can they be burned while in the Cognitive Realm? Same question about Feruchemy. Can one store or tap an attribute in the Cognitive Realm? I think yes... It may simply require additional skill or knowledge. This WoB might be helpful here (Stormlight Archive spoilers): Spoiler Questioner Can you tell me anything about the Elsecallers we don't know yet? Brandon Sanderson They should be able to get back out of Shadesmar without having to find a perpendicularity, but Jasnah doesn't know how to do it yet. She should be able to do that, she just hasn't figured it out. Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019) 1 hour ago, Honorless said: With Hemalurgy, I want to ask who fuels it? I mean Hemalurgy is Ruin's magic, I think Ruin only fuels the theft and grafting of the stolen attributes, and that he does not provide the Investiture to fuel any stolen Investiture art, that either the original Shard still provides the necessary Investiture or that it goes through Ruin somehow, who corrupts the Investiture then passes it to the Hemalurgist. I agree - I think the original Shard provides the Investiture for the acquired magic system 1 hour ago, Honorless said: I understood the concept of Atium as just a source of Investiture within Preservation's system of Allomancy but what about Hemalurgy? Trell is doing the reverse with Trellium in Ruin's system, now Harmony's system, of Hemalurgy. Shouldn't Harmony be able to sense something? The use of Hemalurgy isn't instantaneous, it's a two step process: first you have to spike someone's attributes, then you have to spike yourself. I would say Harmony should be able to sense both, even if all he's providing the Investiture for is the theft and the grafting. I don't think Shards can sense every use of their Investiture. Harmony is special here, because (A) Scadrial and its inhabitants were created directly by Preservation and Ruin and (B) Hemalurgy specifically allows users to talk to him. Godmetals of other Shards probably interfere with this. Also, heavy spiritweb modification generally seem to provide this kind of effect, for example (Stormlight Archive spoilers) Spoiler Lift hiding from Odium in Dalinar's vision
Weltall Posted November 9, 2019 Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Honorless said: Can Allomancy be used in the Cognitive Realm? This question has a very simple answer: Yes Quote Questioner Can you use Allomancy in the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yes... you can. Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017) Quote With Hemalurgy, I want to ask who fuels it? I mean Hemalurgy is Ruin's magic, I think Ruin only fuels the theft and grafting of the stolen attributes, and that he does not provide the Investiture to fuel any stolen Investiture art, that either the original Shard still provides the necessary Investiture or that it goes through Ruin somehow, who corrupts the Investiture then passes it to the Hemalurgist. You're stealing the bit of spiritweb that lets you use any given magic system so whatever power would originally fuel a stolen magic continues to fuel it in the recipient. Khriss even explains the system as creating false Connection which no Shard ever intended. So hemalurgically-granted allomancy is fuelled by Preservation, feruchemy by Preservation and Ruin however that works, Surgebinding would (assuming you make it work, we know it would be difficult) be fueled by Honor/Cultivation etc. Hemalurgy itself doesn't have a 'fuel' except that Ruin provides the initial bit of magic that steals the spiritweb if you do it properly. I suppose I should clarify that I'm using 'fuel' in the sense of what Shard empowers the magic, rather than the more technical 'color as fuel for Awakening' or 'stormlight as fuel for Surgebinding' sense to avoid confusion. One thing that might be relevant to consider is that a Shard can't refuse to fuel someone's magic once they've got it, though they can interfere in other ways. So even if a Shard finds out that someone is running around with access to their magic, stolen from somebody, they can't just say 'well, you're cut off!' and put a stop to it. Though we do know that in the specific case of the Old Magic, Cultivation would be Very Unhappy with anyone she found doing that. Quote Plus, at the end of 'Bands of Mourning', he told Wax that "[Harmony] always take the time to have this walk". Yet he missed the spiked souls? Don't tell me that the Set managed to keep the spiked ones alive after doing that! Harmony misses the people killed via hemalurgy because the damage to their souls means there's not enough left to talk to and they don't stick around in the Cognitive Realm for as long as a normal person anyways. It's like the inverse of someone who was very Invested before death. Quote Questioner (on behalf of Yata) When someone is spiked, and dies, does that affect the time they spend in the Cognitive? Brandon Sanderson If they are spiked, yes because if you are extra Invested, which spiking technically does, if you have a spike stapling a bit of someone else's soul to yours-- Questioner The other way. Someone spikes through you and you die-- Brandon Sanderson Ohhhhh, oh okay, no, that might make you go faster. Questioner Is that why Harmony doesn’t know who's spiking people? Or-- Brandon Sanderson Hmm. Yeah. Okay. I had not considered that. But yeah, sure. *laughter* Suuureee. You added to the canon. I mean, the actual answer was, when you're spiking somebody, you're ripping of the soul, so kind of, there's not enough left to talk. I mean, you're ripping off enough of the soul, so it's a bad thing. It's a very bad thing. So you go "Who killed you?" and it's just somebody who is essentially-- But yes, they would go faster too. Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) Edited November 9, 2019 by Weltall 2
Honorless he/him Posted November 9, 2019 Author Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) @Weltall, that's awesome, do we have any WoBs on the rest of the questions? Edited November 9, 2019 by Honorless
Weltall Posted November 9, 2019 Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) Yep, I edited a couple in. I didn't see anything on feruchemy in the Cognitive but given that we know allomancy can be used there's no real reason to assume any other magic system would be different. Kelsier's inability to use allomancy is more his own circumstances after all. Edited November 9, 2019 by Weltall
mae Posted November 9, 2019 Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Honorless said: With Hemalurgy, I want to ask who fuels it? Huh. I always interpreted the process being "of Ruin" more so fueled by Ruin just for the "stealing" of the powers, allowing a spike to rip off part of a spiritweb, but the actual magic would be powered by the Shard that the magic system belongs to, as Weltall said. Edited November 9, 2019 by mae
Karger he/him Posted November 9, 2019 Posted November 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Honorless said: , that's awesome, do we have any WoBs on the rest of the questions? Quote Kraków signing (March 21, 2017) #1 Share Copy Play/Pause Mr. Suit Can spren - like Syl - be pierced by hemalurgic spike? Will it give some effect? Brandon Sanderson Yes. A spren can be pierced by Invested metal… Oversleep Could it be spiked? Brandon Sanderson Could a spike be used to give abilities to spren? That’s not going to work really well. Oversleep Could you steal from a spren? Brandon Sanderson Yes, you could steal the Investiture of a spren. Any Investiture can be used in a spike if you know what you’re doing. It’s actually not that hard to use one on a spren. Oversleep Because I thought you said Hemalurgy needs moving blood. Brandon Sanderson It needs, uh, yeah… there are places where spren have more physical form, more tangible form. Questioner Roshar? Brandon Sanderson No, no, no, not Roshar. Questioner The Cognitive Realm on Roshar? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, if you go to the Cognitive Realm on Roshar the spren act differently than they do. Oversleep So you could spike in the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yeah I’ll leave a RAFO with you on that. That’s your fifth one. So there are ways to get any Investiture into Hemalurgy if you know what you’re doing. But yeah this is not something that would be a common use for Hemalurgy. Let’s just say that. Oversleep We do not concern ourselves with common uses. Brandon Sanderson Yes, I know you don’t. But yeah Hemalurgy, when you’re spiking into somebody you… you’ll see when we get around to it. This help? 2
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