Bitsphere he/him Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 From a Spiritual Identity perspective - why was Renarin's vision healed with Stormlight? Do we know what eye condition Renarin had? Has he always had [redacted] vision? Was recently thinking of this because I have an eye disease called Retinitis Pigmentosa. It's a genetic disorder so I've had it since birth, but it didn't really start to affect my vision much until around the time I was in highschool. Before then I could see well enough to play road hockey goalie, etc. So I know what it's like to have good vision, and even though my vision has degraded pretty significantly (RP is degenerative unfortunately) I still think of myself as a sighted person. It's silly I know - but I was wondering whether Stormlight would fix my vision. Then I realized wait a second Renarin had his [redacted] vision healed! And now here I am. Thoughts? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitsphere he/him Posted October 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Huh, I've never been on a forum where the "s" word is censored. Too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Identity is more a tag on investiture rather than a "who you are" thing. That being said, it depends on a couple of things. Whether his brand of nearsightedness was part of his spiritweb, or something caused it to happen, like an injury or something. Some diseases are part of the spiritweb and some aren't. If it's part of the spiritweb, then it'd be harder to affect by healing. If it was caused by an outside issue, then it would be easily healable. The other thing it depends on in self-perception. Your perception of yourself can actually change the Spiritual a little bit. So if Renarin never saw himself as near sighted, the Stormlight could possibly change him so that he's no longer nearsighted, even if it was part of his spiritweb. It's harder to do, but it's possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Same or similar reason as Lopen's arm I would assume. Edited October 17, 2019 by Karger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 55 minutes ago, RShara said: Identity is more a tag on investiture rather than a "who you are" thing. That being said, it depends on a couple of things. Whether his brand of nearsightedness was part of his spiritweb, or something caused it to happen, like an injury or something. Some diseases are part of the spiritweb and some aren't. If it's part of the spiritweb, then it'd be harder to affect by healing. If it was caused by an outside issue, then it would be easily healable. The other thing it depends on in self-perception. Your perception of yourself can actually change the Spiritual a little bit. So if Renarin never saw himself as near sighted, the Stormlight could possibly change him so that he's no longer nearsighted, even if it was part of his spiritweb. It's harder to do, but it's possible. Agreed on all counts, but I do want to point out that there is what I consider a decent bit of evidence that the healing granted by being able to hold stormlight (ie. being a Radiant or Squire) is qualitatively different than the Progression Surge as it's been shown. A Radiant with Progression heals faster than the other orders (or at least Renarin did in OB). By contrast it also has a sharp Time Limit that does not seem to be tied to Self-Image, and expires far sooner than if a person (like Lopen) has their own Stormlight. Specifically, Rhysn went to Renarin for healing but was told it had been too long for him to heal her paralysis. But it's clear from her behavior that she has not "accepted" it as part of Self-Image, given that she repeated tries to stand up when she is distracted or surprised. Personally I think the source of the different behavior is simply the difference between healing your Self and healing someone External; that's a distinction that is significant in a number of cosmere instances. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilphon Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 I kind of suspect that the Healing you get from holding Stormlight works on a different principle from the surge of Progression- Stormlight healing, as we know, it Spiritual-based, it technically doesn't heal, but rather alters you to match your self-image. Progression, meanwhile, feels to me like it's more about acceleration and strengthening what would happen naturally. Which is why it can make plants grow from seeds instantly, and fully heal Renarin faster than Stormlight alone can, but it can't fix old injuries. So in Rysn's case, her body's natural healing process is complete, so there's nothing for Renarin to accelerate and strengthen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitsphere he/him Posted October 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 15 hours ago, Karger said: Same or similar reason as Lopen's arm I would assume. Is it though? Lopen wasn't born with one arm. It was cut off. From what I know about eye disorders - I'm almost certain Renarin was born with his. Perhaps he didn't have crummy vision as a small child - but unless he had an accident that cost him some of his vision - he was likely born with whatever it was that caused his eyes to not be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitsphere he/him Posted October 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 16 hours ago, RShara said: Identity is more a tag on investiture rather than a "who you are" thing. That being said, it depends on a couple of things. Whether his brand of nearsightedness was part of his spiritweb, or something caused it to happen, like an injury or something. Some diseases are part of the spiritweb and some aren't. If it's part of the spiritweb, then it'd be harder to affect by healing. If it was caused by an outside issue, then it would be easily healable. The other thing it depends on in self-perception. Your perception of yourself can actually change the Spiritual a little bit. So if Renarin never saw himself as near sighted, the Stormlight could possibly change him so that he's no longer nearsighted, even if it was part of his spiritweb. It's harder to do, but it's possible. Yes I understood all this. Hence my question if we knew more of the specifics. I think I'm just going to ask Brandon the next time I see him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 31 minutes ago, Bitsphere said: Is it though? Lopen wasn't born with one arm. It was cut off. From what I know about eye disorders - I'm almost certain Renarin was born with his. We actually don't know that. 31 minutes ago, Bitsphere said: I'm almost certain Renarin was born with his. Many eye disorders can worsen over time. It is quite possible he knows what it is like to have much better vision and that he has not adapted to it effectively yet so his old vision could return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitsphere he/him Posted October 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Karger said: We actually don't know that. Many eye disorders can worsen over time. It is quite possible he knows what it is like to have much better vision and that he has not adapted to it effectively yet so his old vision could return. You're right we don't. I'll be shocked if it wasn't, however. And oh yeah I know all about worsening eye conditions haha. I agree with you - that's my feeling as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 50 minutes ago, Bitsphere said: You're right we don't. I'll be shocked if it wasn't, however. And oh yeah I know all about worsening eye conditions haha. I agree with you - that's my feeling as well. Lets say he did have poor eye sight since childhood. Being the son of one of the most important men in the country, I would imagine they had the money to get him corrective lenses pretty early on yes? So although he has bad eye sight, and wears glasses all the time, while wearing glasses he has good eye sight. Since he wears glasses all the time, the good eye sight is the norm for him isn't it? You wear eye glasses long enough, you forget they are there. I think that is what occurred with Renarin. He got so used to glasses being the natural state, and having good vision because of them, that the stormlight healed him back to the ideal he thought was true deep down, which is seeing clear. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not an Evil Librarian Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 19 hours ago, Bitsphere said: Huh, I've never been on a forum where the "s" word is censored. Too funny. "Crem" can be used as a replacement in most circumstances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitsphere he/him Posted October 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Pathfinder said: Lets say he did have poor eye sight since childhood. Being the son of one of the most important men in the country, I would imagine they had the money to get him corrective lenses pretty early on yes? So although he has bad eye sight, and wears glasses all the time, while wearing glasses he has good eye sight. Since he wears glasses all the time, the good eye sight is the norm for him isn't it? You wear eye glasses long enough, you forget they are there. I think that is what occurred with Renarin. He got so used to glasses being the natural state, and having good vision because of them, that the stormlight healed him back to the ideal he thought was true deep down, which is seeing clear. I like that a lot. Makes sense to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Bitsphere said: You're right we don't. I'll be shocked if it wasn't, however. I would not. 2 hours ago, Pathfinder said: the good eye sight is the norm for him isn't it? You wear eye glasses long enough, you forget they are there. I think that is what occurred with Renarin. He got so used to glasses being the natural state, and having good vision because of them, that the stormlight healed him back to the ideal he thought was true deep down, which is seeing clear. Makes sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Pathfinder said: Lets say he did have poor eye sight since childhood. Being the son of one of the most important men in the country, I would imagine they had the money to get him corrective lenses pretty early on yes? So although he has bad eye sight, and wears glasses all the time, while wearing glasses he has good eye sight. Since he wears glasses all the time, the good eye sight is the norm for him isn't it? You wear eye glasses long enough, you forget they are there. I think that is what occurred with Renarin. He got so used to glasses being the natural state, and having good vision because of them, that the stormlight healed him back to the ideal he thought was true deep down, which is seeing clear. That's really good reasoning there. It fits with what we know of how healing works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 (edited) On 10/18/2019 at 11:38 AM, Pathfinder said: Lets say he did have poor eye sight since childhood. Being the son of one of the most important men in the country, I would imagine they had the money to get him corrective lenses pretty early on yes? So although he has bad eye sight, and wears glasses all the time, while wearing glasses he has good eye sight. Since he wears glasses all the time, the good eye sight is the norm for him isn't it? You wear eye glasses long enough, you forget they are there. I think that is what occurred with Renarin. He got so used to glasses being the natural state, and having good vision because of them, that the stormlight healed him back to the ideal he thought was true deep down, which is seeing clear. If this is true we could do a lot with hearing aids and other prosthetics. For example do retainers become unnecessary? Edited November 27, 2019 by Ookla the Prolific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 he/him Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 I like the idea of external progression based healing being different than internal stormlight based healing. It would make sense and gives me hope for Rysn and her legs. Like if she picks up a Nahel bond or something. It seems that perception matters far more in internal healing than in external. It also seems that emotional or psychological 'disorders' are largely exempted from the healing. Teft's addiction, Kaladin and his depression, Dalinar and his PTSD. It almost seems like spren are as much attracted to a bond mates' flaws as they are to his or her values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintersu Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said: I like the idea of external progression based healing being different than internal stormlight based healing. It would make sense and gives me hope for Rysn and her legs. Like if she picks up a Nahel bond or something. I agree with you quite a bit. I think we can point to the text of Oathbringer, though, where Dalinar is in Thaylen and ‘heals’ the temple He has a time limit, before the stones begin to view themselves as separate, as opposed to part of the whole Similarly, some people begin to accept certain wounds as parts of themselves. Kaladin and his brands, for instance If Rysn still hasn’t accepted her inability to walk as part of herself, it seems like she could be healed I am rather partial to her becoming a Willshaper. She seems perfect for it to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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