Inky Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 I seriously doubt Lift is an intro to Cultivation's magic? She just seems like she's weird to me, and her Surgebinding definitely comes from a normal Nahel bond. Where's the other bond? Is eating a bond? I don't count the Singer bonds as a magic system anyways, I'm using the Surgebinding/Voidbinding/Fabrials distinction Brandon made
Karger he/him Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Inky said: I seriously doubt Lift is an intro to Cultivation's magic? Quote Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018) #4 Share Copy Play/Pause PrinceDusty At the Pixel Project event, you talked about a further extent of Cultivation's magic than just the boon and bane? Are there any people alive at the end of Oathbringer who are influenced by that magic? Brandon Sanderson Yes, Lift. Well, I guess that's a boon, isn't it? Yes, there are. But nobody on screen that has Cultivation magic, other than boons or curses from the Nightwatcher. Yes, there is such a thing, no, there's no one else on screen. But what Lift does is a hint. 4 minutes ago, Inky said: I don't count the Singer bonds as a magic system anyways, That seems really arbitrary. Considering that you do count fabrails. 4 minutes ago, Inky said: I'm using the Surgebinding/Voidbinding/Fabrials distinction Brandon made When? In what context?
Inky Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 Just now, Karger said: When? In what context? There's a WOB where he says he counts three systems on Roshar, which are the ones I laid out. Quote Questioner How many magic systems are in The Stormlight Archive, and how many of them haven't been seen? Brandon Sanderson I would say the only major one you haven’t seen is Voidbinding, it depends on how you count them. I count fabrials as one, Surgebinding as one, and Voidbinding as one. And then the Old Magic is kind of its own weird thing. Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016) Also huh, I forgot about that WoB. I always figured Surgebinding was a blend
Karger he/him Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Inky said: There's a WOB where he says he counts three systems on Roshar, which are the ones I laid out. You missed Old magic and these are only the ones we have seen. He also says it depends on how you decide to count them so this is still an arbitrary distinction. I would also like to point out that magic on Roshar is extremely complicated and I am not sure we can count on Brandon to get everything in a WoB context. Still if you want to use that distinction those are all based on boding. Apparently that is how the planet was built.
Quantus he/him Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 9 hours ago, The traveller said: ok that is possible too, i get your point. But amaram and aesudan, i thought do something more similar to Singers and they actually swallow the gemheart, Aesudan even said that she had found a way to work around the gemheart issue, i think. and since there was no swallowing of gemhearts by A's army, i thought it is something different and may be closer to Nahel bond version for voidbinding... That is true, the Thrill Effect of Nergaoul and the physical transformation effect of Yelig-nar are entirely distinct. As @Calderis was saying, the Thrill is a purely mental/emotional effect (glowing eyes aside). Yelig-Nar required a Gem to be swallowed (by all indications to become a pseudo-gemheart) and then causes major physical modifications (crystals replacing internal organs) and grants all ten surges; which really sounds to me like an example of an extremely OP Form of Power to me, one so awesome it can overpower the physical form of even a human so long as it has a Gem seed to inhabit in the physical Realm even if it's not a natural/biological gemheart. But needing that physical anchor rather than Bonding and Blending their Spiritwebs directly in the Nahel Bond symbiosis. 2
Karger he/him Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 6 hours ago, Inky said: How do Fabrials use bonds? You trap a Spren in a gemstone. You bond it there. I see no difference between fabrails and spren symbiosis.
Calderis he/him Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) For the longest time, I believed that Roshar's focus was bonds. I looked at the Nahel bond as a symbiotic bond, Fabrials as plain and simple binding (bondage is still a form of bond), and prior to OB seeing Stormform, I figured that the voidspren (and even the Fused before I saw their surge use) was a parasitic bond... And while I still think all of those things hold true, I don't think that it's the basis of the magics on Roshar. At this point, I believe that the Surges themselves are the Focus on Roshar. The Voidbinding chart still contains the Surges just with an altered glyph symmetry. I go into this at length in my thread about how I believe the Fused aren't Voidbinding. At this point, I think that the core of Voidbinding isn't a bond at all, but the emotional state that we see Moash in in OB. Mainly because of this line from the Elia Stele. Quote Well were they named Voidbringers, for they brought the void. The empty pit that sucks in emotion. A new god. Their god. Though I don't think that Vyre has learned to utilize it (yet), I think that that "void" is the state that let's them Connect to Odium's power and draw voidlight. And in Renarin's case, I think that emotional fuel isn't coming from Renarin himself, but from Glys. Quote My sorrow, Renarin. I will give you my sorrow. Edited October 26, 2019 by Calderis 3
Aon Tia she/her Posted October 26, 2019 Author Posted October 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Calderis said: At this point, I think that the core of Voidbinding isn't a bond at all, but the emotional state that we see Moash in in OB. Mainly because of this line from the Elia Stele My only little concern is that if vyre were to become voidbringer.. why grant him honorblade instead? Is not Easy access to surges via honorblade Going to impede his progress on the voidbinding front? 1
Calderis he/him Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 23 minutes ago, The traveller said: My only little concern is that if vyre were to become voidbringer.. why grant him honorblade instead? Is not Easy access to surges via honorblade Going to impede his progress on the voidbinding front? Considering I don't think they're in any way the same powers I doubt it. 1
Quantus he/him Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 On 10/26/2019 at 2:26 AM, Calderis said: For the longest time, I believed that Roshar's focus was bonds. I looked at the Nahel bond as a symbiotic bond, Fabrials as plain and simple binding (bondage is still a form of bond), and prior to OB seeing Stormform, I figured that the voidspren (and even the Fused before I saw their surge use) was a parasitic bond... And while I still think all of those things hold true, I don't think that it's the basis of the magics on Roshar. At this point, I believe that the Surges themselves are the Focus on Roshar. The Voidbinding chart still contains the Surges just with an altered glyph symmetry. I go into this at length in my thread about how I believe the Fused aren't Voidbinding. At this point, I think that the core of Voidbinding isn't a bond at all, but the emotional state that we see Moash in in OB. Mainly because of this line from the Elia Stele. Though I don't think that Vyre has learned to utilize it (yet), I think that that "void" is the state that let's them Connect to Odium's power and draw voidlight. And in Renarin's case, I think that emotional fuel isn't coming from Renarin himself, but from Glys. So then in the case of REnarin, would that mean that he's utilizing Progression via the normal Bond means (a Nahel Bond with Glys) but in the case of his altered Illumination he's doing it via this Emotional-Fuel method? 1
Aon Tia she/her Posted October 28, 2019 Author Posted October 28, 2019 I think he would be able to access both the normal surges as a normal truthwatcher but he would be able to use both storm light and void light to feed the surges.. 1
Calderis he/him Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Quantus said: So then in the case of REnarin, would that mean that he's utilizing Progression via the normal Bond means (a Nahel Bond with Glys) but in the case of his altered Illumination he's doing it via this Emotional-Fuel method? That's my opinion, yes. 1
Quantus he/him Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, Calderis said: That's my opinion, yes. The question that raises is why then is he not able to use the normal Illumination Surge via his Bond with Glys. Is that because of interference, the way Fullborn and Mistborn cant naturally coexist? Or is it some limitation of a Bond with a Corrupted Spren like Glys, meaning Glys is the one cannot provide both radiant Surges? Not sure how to test it short of handing him an Honorblade and see if he gets Illumination access. 1
Halyo_Alex he/him Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, Quantus said: The question that raises is why then is he not able to use the normal Illumination Surge via his Bond with Glys. Is that because of interference, the way Fullborn and Mistborn cant naturally coexist? Or is it some limitation of a Bond with a Corrupted Spren like Glys, meaning Glys is the one cannot provide both radiant Surges? Not sure how to test it short of handing him an Honorblade and see if he gets Illumination access. I believe Glys no longer has the ability to provide the normal Surge of Illumination to Renarin because of the corruption. I think whatever the corruption did, part of it was changing the "secondary" surge of the surgepair into a void. So if, for example, Pattern got corrupted, we would see void-transformation and normal-illumination emerge on the other side.
SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 I too think that the Fused and Radiants both surgebind. The Radiants have access to two surges . The Fused have access to one . They are nine types of Fused , so their must be one Surge the Fused cannot access . I’m go out on a limb and guess that it’s progression. Or the ability to heal anyone else .... I think voidbinding is what the different unmade do . There powers don’t fit into any surge we have seen . It’s totally. Different . The Thrill Riots people , to lack a better term . The Night Mother mimics murders and creates midnight essences. One currupts spren , One creates the death rattles . I know Renarin is supposed to be voidbing in a fashion because he sees the future . But I think this is a result of his spren being corrupted by The Unmade that was voidbinding, thus he has a form of limited precognition . This is just my theory , we all will have to Rafo who is tight . 1
Halyo_Alex he/him Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said: I too think that the Fused and Radiants both surgebind. The Radiants have access to two surges . The Fused have access to one . They are nine types of Fused , so their must be one Surge the Fused cannot access . I’m go out on a limb and guess that it’s progression. Or the ability to heal anyone else .... I think voidbinding is what the different unmade do . There powers don’t fit into any surge we have seen . It’s totally. Different . The Thrill Riots people , to lack a better term . The Night Mother mimics murders and creates midnight essences. One currupts spren , One creates the death rattles . I know Renarin is supposed to be voidbing in a fashion because he sees the future . But I think this is a result of his spren being corrupted by The Unmade that was voidbinding, thus he has a form of limited precognition . This is just my theory , we all will have to Rafo who is tight . Actually, I'm in a similar boat with you on what Voidbinding's powers are based on. I agree that the Voids' powers ought to be similar to the Unmade. For example, maybe Void-transformation allows you to basically Soulcast Midnight Essence and control it?
Pathfinder Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said: I too think that the Fused and Radiants both surgebind. The Radiants have access to two surges . The Fused have access to one . They are nine types of Fused , so their must be one Surge the Fused cannot access . I’m go out on a limb and guess that it’s progression. Or the ability to heal anyone else .... I think voidbinding is what the different unmade do . There powers don’t fit into any surge we have seen . It’s totally. Different . The Thrill Riots people , to lack a better term . The Night Mother mimics murders and creates midnight essences. One currupts spren , One creates the death rattles . I know Renarin is supposed to be voidbing in a fashion because he sees the future . But I think this is a result of his spren being corrupted by The Unmade that was voidbinding, thus he has a form of limited precognition . This is just my theory , we all will have to Rafo who is tight . WoB says that the order the voidbringers do not have an analogue for is bondsmiths, so I think the potential surge that is missing would be adhesion or tension.
Quantus he/him Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Pathfinder said: WoB says that the order the voidbringers do not have an analogue for is bondsmiths, so I think the potential surge that is missing would be adhesion or tension. Pretty sure that WOB was about the UnMade, not Voidbinding. You're thinking of this one, yes? Quote XS-Terrain Also, does each of the Unmade have a corresponding order of the Knights Radiant? Brandon Sanderson Eh... Kind of. XS-Terrain Ok. So there are nine Unmade right, so which one is left out? Brandon Sanderson Bondsmith. But it's not as one to one, there's some fuzziness in there. Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017) Edited October 28, 2019 by Quantus Grammar 1
Pathfinder Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Quantus said: Pretty sure that WOB was about the UnMade, not Voidbinding. Your thinking of this one, yes? Could be. Could have sword there was a subsequent one concerning the powers. I will dig when I have time to see if I can locate it.
SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Quantus said: thinking 5 hours ago, Quantus said: Pretty sure that WOB was about the UnMade, not Voidbinding. You're thinking of this one, yes? Well u made me curious when u said there was a WoB saying unmade did not voidbind. I looked and I found this ! I try to. Form an opinion first . Post it to see if anyone had same idea . And look for a WoB to confirm.
Quantus he/him Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 11 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said: Well u made me curious when u said there was a WoB saying unmade did not voidbind. I looked and I found this ! I try to. Form an opinion first . Post it to see if anyone had same idea . And look for a WoB to confirm. I never said UnMade didn't voidbind, just that it was the UnMade that lacked a bondsmith equivalent, rather than Voidbinding. The Voidbinding chart shows ten orders too, so I do think there are/will be a Voidbinding bondsmith eventually
SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 @Quantus well my apologies . I read it like you was saying the WoB was about that Unmade did not voidbing. Instead you meant the WoB was about the Unmade , the WoB was not about Voidbinding . Read what you wrote again slowly and you will see it can be interpreted both ways .
Quantus he/him Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said: Read what you wrote again slowly and you will see it can be interpreted both ways . I dont really tthink so, neither my comment nor the one I was replying to had anything to do with who may or may not have access to Voidbinding, bother were talking about a Bondsmith analogy. But no harm done 1
Recommended Posts