Was hoid behind the fall of the Lord ruler ?

[Friendshipspren]

So when hoid meets kelsier in the well of Ascension , he kinda implies he was behind tlr's fall and refers to kelsier as a tool or something .

So did hoid want to release Ruin so that Ruin could have battled odium.

Hoid does say to dalinar that he would be willing to watch roshar burn , with tears yes but with no regret  if it meant odium would fall .

Wouldn't the same case apply for Scadrial ? 

It would explain what hoid was doing staying on Scadrial knowing ruin would destroy the planet, instead of hopping back into the cognitive realm and leaving Scadrial behind after pocketing the Lerasium. Hoid can live through a lot of things but I doubt he could live through the destruction of a world. Unless of course he had already made a deal with ruin , he would free ruin and in return ruin had to do him a favor , a destructive one ofcourse.

So could it be true or did he someother reason to stay ? If so what was the reason ? Was it just hoids Spidey sense going wrong or did he think he could simply ingest the Lerasium and compound to survive the destruction of the planet and the vacuum of space ? Did he have enough metals to do that ? 

Wait but if preservation were to be splintered would allomancy and compounding work ? 

Wait did hoid intend to do harm to Vin ? Like I know he can't hurt anyone but maybe he could have given Vin false info so that she would invade fadrex and ruin would get his atium ?

Also how did he manage to beat up kelsier so bad in the cognitive realm. I thought he had some sort of cognitive impedence regarding violence but he beat up kel in the CR so....

Oh is it that he couldn't actually harm kel , like he could beat him but apart from feeling pain kel wouldn't he harmed .

Sorry I'm going all over the place now.

My main question is was he behind tlr's fall ?

Holy storm , Maybe mare was a female herald sent to manipulate Kel by hoid. She wasn't a tineye , she had a Spren or something . I mean it's a long shot but maybe the way he uses fortune helped him form a nebulous plan that worked with ruin's cooperation ?

[Karger]

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

So when hoid meets kelsier in the well of Ascension , he kinda implies he was behind tlr's fall and refers to kelsier as a tool or something .

That is not what he implies.  Also Ruin takes credit for killing TLR.

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

So did hoid want to release Ruin so that Ruin could have battled odium.

I kind of doubt it.

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Hoid does say to dalinar that he would be willing to watch roshar burn , with tears yes but with no regret  if it meant odium would fall .

He says to get what I want.  We have no idea what he wants.

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Wouldn't the same case apply for Scadrial ? 

Possibly.

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

It would explain what hoid was doing staying on Scadrial knowing ruin would destroy the planet, instead of hopping back into the cognitive realm and leaving Scadrial behind after pocketing the Lerasium. Hoid can live through a lot of things but I doubt he could live through the destruction of a world. Unless of course he had already made a deal with ruin , he would free ruin and in return ruin had to do him a favor , a destructive one ofcourse.

Hoid has a lot of extraordinarily abilities.  He might have been able to predict that Scadrial would be fine "future sight" or been confident he could survive due to his healing and Lerasium mistborn abilities(just to name a few).

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

So could it be true or did he someother reason to stay ? If so what was the reason ? Was it just hoids Spidey sense going wrong or did he think he could simply ingest the Lerasium and compound to survive the destruction of the planet and the vacuum of space ? Did he have enough metals to do that ? 

He was looking for Feruchemy.

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Wait but if preservation were to be splintered would allomancy and compounding work ? 

Surgebinding still works and Honor was splintered.

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Wait did hoid intend to do harm to Vin ? Like I know he can't hurt anyone but maybe he could have given Vin false info so that she would invade fadrex and ruin would get his atium ?

The standard belief is that Vin's Preservation based spidy sense warned her the Hoid was destructive(Brandon said something to this effect I belive).

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Also how did he manage to beat up kelsier so bad in the cognitive realm. I thought he had some sort of cognitive impedence regarding violence but he beat up kel in the CR so....

That violence was not real.  It was only perceived.  Hoid has no problem tricking people.

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

My main question is was he behind tlr's fall ?

Ruin says that it was him.  Preservation seems to have planed for this though.

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Maybe mare was a female herald sent to manipulate Kel by hoid.

No sorry.  The Heralds are all in the Rosharan system(they are kind of stuck there actually) as of Mistborn.

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

She wasn't a tineye , she had a Spren or something

Heralds do not have spren and spren can't leave Roshar.

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

I mean it's a long shot but maybe the way he uses fortune helped him form a nebulous plan that worked with ruin's cooperation ?

I kind of doubt it sorry.

[RShara]

48 minutes ago, Karger said:

The standard belief is that Vin's Preservation based spidy sense warned her the Hoid was destructive(Brandon said something to this effect I belive).

We know why Vin avoided Hoid, from Secret History. So we don't have to guess about that. Other than that, agree 100% on everything you said.

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, RShara said:

We know why Vin avoided Hoid, from Secret History. So we don't have to guess about that. Other than that, agree 100% on everything you said.

That explanation does not seem to work as he said Vin did not hear him.

[RShara]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

That explanation does not seem to work as he said Vin did not hear him.

No?

Spoiler

Quote

Vin,” Kelsier said. “Vin! Listen, please. That man is trouble. Don’t approach him. Don’t—”

Vin cocked her head, then leaped off the roof, away from the Drifter.

“Hell,” Kelsier said. “Did she actually hear me?”

Quote

And she knew he was there. He could sense it in the way she leaped, trying to shake a tail, or at least catch sight of one. She was good, but this was a game he’d been playing for decades before she was born.

She could sense him. Why? How?

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by RShara

[Impact]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

That explanation does not seem to work as he said Vin did not hear him.

Even if she didn't explicitly hear him, it seems like she at the least *sensed* his warning

[Karger]

4 hours ago, RShara said:

No?

I was thinking of this WoB

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Sept. 8, 2016)
#4 Share Copy

 

 

yurisses

You suggested Secret History gave the definitive explanation why Vin didn't meet Hoid but many years ago you hinted at something different (that something he does spooked her and she is too observant for her own good). Can you reveal what the original reason you had intended was? (My favorite theories were eerily skillful humming and her picking up very faint pulses from his Investiture usage.)

Brandon Sanderson

I went back and forth on this one, honestly. I knew Kelsier would be involved, but one thing I was really worried about with Secret History was undermining Vin's story or her agency. While I liked Ender's Shadow, the closest parallel I knew of to a story like this, I didn't like how it weakened a lot of what Ender accomplished and gave it to Bean instead. (I think I've mentioned this in conjunction with Secret History before.)

So I wanted something to have stopped Vin, regardless of whether or not I ever wrote Kelsier's behind-the-scenes story or not. The official answer in my head is not that it was anything specific, but that the whole package that Hoid was presenting was WRONG to her. Her instincts picked up a dozen subtle cues that he was more dangerous than he seemed, and that made her freeze and assess. And that gave Kelsier the chance to nudge her away.

I wasn't trying to lead people to figure out a specific answer, with those comments. I was trying to hint that something was wrong, and Vin didn't quite know what set her off--because it wasn't one thing, but many. So I don't have a smoking gun, so to speak, of things Hoid was doing to drive her off.