Impact Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 I've seen a lot of people posit that when Dalinar says that he is Unity, he is taking a step towards taking up the Shard of Honor and renaming it Unity. I have a alternate theory What if Dalinar represents the unity of all three shards in the Rosharin system? Men are often referred to as "children of Honor", and he is bonded to the Stormfather, which contains the remnants of Honor's power. Dalinar spent his life being groomed by Odium to be his champion, and was called "Son of Odium" by the Nightwatcher. Cultivation takes some of Dalinar's memories and a piece of him. Ergo, I think Unity is more like Harmony, and while Dalinar is not a Shard, he was representing the union of all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Impact said: I've seen a lot of people posit that when Dalinar says that he is Unity, he is taking a step towards taking up the Shard of Honor and renaming it Unity. I have a alternate theory What if Dalinar represents the unity of all three shards in the Rosharin system? Men are often referred to as "children of Honor", and he is bonded to the Stormfather, which contains the remnants of Honor's power. Dalinar spent his life being groomed by Odium to be his champion, and was called "Son of Odium" by the Nightwatcher. Cultivation takes some of Dalinar's memories and a piece of him. Ergo, I think Unity is more like Harmony, and while Dalinar is not a Shard, he was representing the union of all three. This theory comes up fairly often which may be a good thing great minds think alike but I personally dislike it. It feels too similar to something we have seen before and I personally think giving Odium the join't abilities of teamwork and personal development sounds like a recipe for disaster. Also holding that many shards together is going to be tough. Still check out some of the other threads. Their is plenty of evidence both for and against. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheFoxQR Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) The only problem most of us have with that is that it feels too similar to Mistborn. Otherwise, it's a solid theory. Edited July 22, 2019 by TheFoxQR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted July 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Karger said: This theory comes up fairly often which may be a good thing great minds think alike but I personally dislike it. It feels too similar to something we have seen before and I personally think giving Odium the join't abilities of teamwork and personal development sounds like a recipe for disaster. Also holding that many shards together is going to be tough. Still check out some of the other threads. Their is plenty of evidence both for and against. That's why I don't think it has anything to do with an actual ascension, more like Dalinar recognizing the parts of himself belong to multiple shards. I don't think he will hold any shards from this, just that he has a piece of all of them inside him, the way people on Scadrial have bits of preservation (and Ruin?) 2 minutes ago, TheFoxQR said: The only problem most of us have with that it feels too similar to Mistborn. Otherwise, it's a solid theory. That is the one drawback 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Impact said: That's why I don't think it has anything to do with an actual ascension, more like Dalinar recognizing the parts of himself belong to multiple shards. I don't think he will hold any shards from this, just that he has a piece of all of them inside him, the way people on Scadrial have bits of preservation (and Ruin?) Everyone in the Cosmere is part of multiple shards. Do you think that people from Scadrial do not get angry? I also highly doubt that Dalinar does not recognise that he wants more then one thing and has more then one nature. He may claim to be dense but he is not stupid. Having and navigating multiple impulses is part of life. While I agree that people from Alethkar tend to act like teenagers rather then responsible adults I fail to understand why you think that belonging to more then one shard is important for Dalinar's development. Edited July 22, 2019 by Karger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Karger said: Everyone in the Cosmere is part of multiple shards. Do you think that people from Scadrial do not get angry? I also highly doubt that Dalinar does not recognise that he wants more then one thing and has more then one nature. He may claim to be dense but he is not stupid. Having and navigating multiple impulses is part of life. Actually Scadrial is a special case. The people are only made out of two shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted July 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Karger said: Everyone in the Cosmere is part of multiple shards. Do you think that people from Scadrial do not get angry? I also highly doubt that Dalinar does not recognise that he wants more then one thing and has more then one nature. He may claim to be dense but he is not stupid. Having and navigating multiple impulses is part of life. While I agree that people from Alethkar tend to act like teenagers rather then responsible adults I fail to understand why you think that belonging to more then one shard is important for Dalinar's development. I meant it as more of a direct connection to the three shards than just acknowledging he gets angry or honorable. Three shards very directly touched his life, and that is the significant part. Of course people feel all the different aspects of shards, but most people don't interact with three of them. Side point, does feeling an emotion mean that you are touched by that shard, or made up of it? Because Preservation and Ruin specifically put part of their power in people when they created the world. But did the other shards? Did Honor or Cultivation have anything to do with the Ashyn humans' creation? And either way, does that mean they have a direct bit of the shard or do they just feel things? Edited July 22, 2019 by Impact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Impact said: I meant it as more of a direct connection to the three shards than just acknowledging he gets angry or honorable. Three shards very directly touched his life, and that is the significant part. Of course people feel all the different aspects of shards, but most people don't interact with three of them. Did you mean Capital C connected? 45 minutes ago, Impact said: Side point, does feeling an emotion mean that you are touched by that shard, or made up of it? Because Preservation and Ruin specifically put part of their power in people when they created the world. But did the other shards? Did Honor or Cultivation have anything to do with the Ashyn humans' creation? And either way, does that mean they have a direct bit of the shard or do they just feel things? The shards are everywhere. They permeate everything. Even if Honor and Cultivation did not do anything to any specific group of people they still grow and have the capacity to keep oaths. 56 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said: Actually Scadrial is a special case. The people are only made out of two shards. Were made by two shards that is not the same thing. Edited July 22, 2019 by Karger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted July 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Karger said: Did you mean Capital C connected? The shards are everywhere. They permeate everything. Even if Honor and Cultivation did not do anything to any specific group of people they still grow and have the capacity to keep oaths. Were made by two shards that is not the same thing. 1) I meant lower c, but uppercase C might make more sense... Idunno, still hashing this idea out a little 2) This is philosophically weird to me. There are more than 16 types of action/emotion, yet we still feel them. So theoretically shards are not necessary to feel or do something. So assuming that to be true, its reasonable that just because someone can act honorable does not mean they have honor in them, right? Or am I way off here. Because it seems like free will would account for not needing shards to be a certain way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 31 minutes ago, Impact said: 2) This is philosophically weird to me. There are more than 16 types of action/emotion, yet we still feel them. So theoretically shards are not necessary to feel or do something. So assuming that to be true, its reasonable that just because someone can act honorable does not mean they have honor in them, right? Or am I way off here. Because it seems like free will would account for not needing shards to be a certain way. It is hard to explain. Adonalsium was everything and created everything. The shards are 16 pieces of him. Everything in the Cosmere is controlled by one or more shards at least indirectly. As Harmony says "I am not omnipotent but I believe that parts of me could be." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted July 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Karger said: It is hard to explain. Adonalsium was everything and created everything. The shards are 16 pieces of him. Everything in the Cosmere is controlled by one or more shards at least indirectly. As Harmony says "I am not omnipotent but I believe that parts of me could be." Interesting. I get what you are saying more, now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 5 hours ago, Karger said: Were made by two shards that is not the same thing. Not trying to be difficult, but they are actually only made up of R/P. That's why R/P can talk/listen directly to people's minds. It's why Ruin could alter texts ect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said: Not trying to be difficult, but they are actually only made up of R/P. That's why R/P can talk/listen directly to people's minds. It's why Ruin could alter texts ect... Except that cannot be fully accurate as they still experience phenomena that can not be described in terms of entropy and stasis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 If Unity is a being who has never before existed, who was not yet killed therefore, why would Odium be like, "We killed you!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, Karger said: Except that cannot be fully accurate as they still experience phenomena that can not be described in terms of entropy and stasis. I could keep debating this for a long time, however this has nothing to do with topic so I'll go away now:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted July 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 12 hours ago, Karger said: Except that cannot be fully accurate as they still experience phenomena that can not be described in terms of entropy and stasis. Again, I see what you are saying, but I still don't really like the idea that people need shards to allow them to feel/do normal human things. The Shard's Intent affects what the Shard can do, but maybe people are more mutable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Impact said: Again, I see what you are saying, but I still don't really like the idea that people need shards to allow them to feel/do normal human things. The Shard's Intent affects what the Shard can do, but maybe people are more mutable. It is not like Rayse can stop or make someone be angry without specific effort. A lot of what the shard does is without the vessel's specific permission or potentially even knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted July 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, Karger said: It is not like Rayse can stop or make someone be angry without specific effort. A lot of what the shard does is without the vessel's specific permission or potentially even knowledge. That's not what I mean. I just mean that I would think people can still feel angry even if Odium had no influence or was totally separated from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Impact said: That's not what I mean. I just mean that I would think people can still feel angry even if Odium had no influence or was totally separated from them. Odium is omnipresent. How exactly do you mean separate from him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted July 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Karger said: Odium is omnipresent. How exactly do you mean separate from him? I just meant hypothetically. I was using him as an example. Assume you can take a Shard and completely nullify their power and influence. I think people would *still* feel emotion even without the Shard around. Until we learn more about what Adonalsium was, we can't know how much or little he directly impacted people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 50 minutes ago, Impact said: I just meant hypothetically. I was using him as an example. Assume you can take a Shard and completely nullify their power and influence. I think people would *still* feel emotion even without the Shard around. You can't nullify a shard's power and influence. That would be like destroying gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted July 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, Karger said: You can't nullify a shard's power and influence. That would be like destroying gravity. Do we actually know that? Again, this is all hypothetical at this point. I guess I'm just trying to say that I think that that emotions exist outside the Shards, unless there is a WoB or proof otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Impact said: Do we actually know that? Again, this is all hypothetical at this point. I guess I'm just trying to say that I think that that emotions exist outside the Shards, unless there is a WoB or proof otherwise. Overlord Jebus So the Shard of Preservation embodies all preservation in the cosmere? Brandon Sanderson Yes but he just can't do that, right? Like, he's not infinite. The Vessels are not, even if their minds are enormously expanded by holding a Shard, they are not infinite. The Connection is all there in the Spiritual Realm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted July 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, Karger said: Overlord Jebus So the Shard of Preservation embodies all preservation in the cosmere? Brandon Sanderson Yes but he just can't do that, right? Like, he's not infinite. The Vessels are not, even if their minds are enormously expanded by holding a Shard, they are not infinite. The Connection is all there in the Spiritual Realm I stand corrected then, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 25 minutes ago, Impact said: I stand corrected then, thank you Of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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