Steel Inquisitive he/him Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 I've seen lots of talk about bonding spren of different orders but what about bonding two spren of the same kind? (Ie bonding two honor spren.) Is it even possible? If no, than why? Would you be able to get a compounding effect like with the honor blades? How much better would your stormlight efficiency be, especially in the early stages? Would saying one oath work to advance you in both bonds or would you need to swear slightly different oaths to each spren? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Karger he/him Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 I personally have always seen Spren bonding as a kind of exclusive relationship. I am not sure any two honorspren would share. That being said I see no reason why it is not technically possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 First Witness Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Alright, so, It might not be possible. Why? The Oaths. Speaking the oaths once you are ready to speak them become an invested intent. I do not know that you could duplicate the same investment twice in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 RShara she/her Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 I’m sure it’s theoretically possible, but I really really doubt that the spren would be willing to share. It’s effect would be essentially the same as bonding with an Honorblade and a windspren...some compounded strength maybe. But since that mostly depends on the strength of the bond, not a lot of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 First Witness Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 See, I'm not terribly convinced. An honorblade does not require the oaths. The spren do. And the oaths are fulfilling a point of catalyst for invested growth. For instance, if you eat two beads of steel, you can't burn both beads for more effect. You can flare steel and the investiture is released at a predetermined speed based on your spiritweb. So, IF, you could bond two of the same we have to presume you would use your oaths to empower one and not the other. Bonding two of the same seems like it would require outside investiture to empower the second of the same type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Quantus he/him Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 11 hours ago, First Witness said: See, I'm not terribly convinced. An honorblade does not require the oaths. The spren do. And the oaths are fulfilling a point of catalyst for invested growth. For instance, if you eat two beads of steel, you can't burn both beads for more effect. You can flare steel and the investiture is released at a predetermined speed based on your spiritweb. So, IF, you could bond two of the same we have to presume you would use your oaths to empower one and not the other. Bonding two of the same seems like it would require outside investiture to empower the second of the same type. That comparison doesnt fit, the steel is just more fuel, ie more stormlight, but still using a single Shardic Connection to channel the power (a Connection to Preservation for allomancy, or a Nahel Bond to a Spren). Having a second Spren and thus a second whole Nahel bond would be more akin to when a mistborn gets extra power after receiving a Spike of allomancy on top of their own existing abilities; they're getting two separate conduits to channel the power. So long as all three (two spren and radiant) agree on their interpretation of their Order's Oaths, their wouldnt be any conflict, same as if they were of different orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Scion of the Mists Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 14 hours ago, First Witness said: Alright, so, It might not be possible. Why? The Oaths. Speaking the oaths once you are ready to speak them become an invested intent. I do not know that you could duplicate the same investment twice in this way. The Oaths a pretty clearly personal between the spren and the Surgebinder. The spren makes the determination if the Surgebinder is ready for the next "level," so there's no reason why two spren of the same type couldn't (and I believe they probably would) accept the same Oath. However, I do think it's possible for the spren to differ in their assessment of the Surgebinder. So one honorspren might think they're ready for the third oath and the other might not, so they'd only get the one Shardblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 First Witness Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 The Nahel Bond is a fusing of your spirit web with the spren. That is true. The oaths are -somewhat- personal, but there is a purpose that has to be fulfilled. The oaths are what allow the Nahel bond to progress. The spren can 'know' they are ready for the next level because they are shardic investiture...there are gates and the oaths are the keys to that deepening connection. The spren cannot choose to be -fine- if those oaths are broken. The same "Oaths" acting as the key to two different bonds seems like it should not work. Maybe it can? I just think it feels -wrong- for a Windrunner of the Third Oath to be able to pick up a new honorspren, in theory, and then just ramble out the three oaths and it have an effect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Scion of the Mists Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 50 minutes ago, First Witness said: The Nahel Bond is a fusing of your spirit web with the spren. That is true. The oaths are -somewhat- personal, but there is a purpose that has to be fulfilled. The oaths are what allow the Nahel bond to progress. The spren can 'know' they are ready for the next level because they are shardic investiture...there are gates and the oaths are the keys to that deepening connection. The spren cannot choose to be -fine- if those oaths are broken. The same "Oaths" acting as the key to two different bonds seems like it should not work. Maybe it can? I just think it feels -wrong- for a Windrunner of the Third Oath to be able to pick up a new honorspren, in theory, and then just ramble out the three oaths and it have an effect. The specific wording of the oaths (with the possible exception of the first) doesn't matter. It's about how closely the Surgebinder matches to the Order . If it was just the words, then you'd just get a cheat sheet from a full, five oath Radiant and instantly level up. A Windrunner of the Third Ideal (remember, they're Ideals, not Oaths) got there because they have accepted their responsibility to protect those they don't like. I see no reason why two different honorspren couldn't judge the same Surgebinder as being worth. In fact, I think it'd be rare for them to disagree. For example, if Kaladin were to lose Syl somehow, and a different honorspren stepped up to bind with him, I think he'd pretty quickly go back up to the level he started. It might take some time for the relationship between them to develop, but he wouldn't be back at square one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 First Witness Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Right, but it's not a matter of When one leaves and another comes. If Something happened to Syl (who is part of Kaladin's Spirit Web) it will hurt Kaladin in some fashion. But, presuming he's still fine enough to move around and one comes to bond with him, sure...He is invested enough to fuel the growth of One Spren to a level in accordance with the Third Ideal. There is an energy exchange between Radiant and Spren, and that energy increase seems to have a lot to do with the ideals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Scion of the Mists Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 22 hours ago, First Witness said: He is invested enough to fuel the growth of One Spren to a level in accordance with the Third Ideal. There is an energy exchange between Radiant and Spren, and that energy increase seems to have a lot to do with the ideals. I think we fundamentally differ in our interpretation of the Nahel bond. I do not believe it is an "energy exchange," where the Kaladin stores up "Windrunner energy" by doing Windrunner-y things, until it reaches a certain level and then he expends it to improve the bond between him and Syl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 First Witness Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 I don't think it's an energy expenditure. The spren is sharing "Knight's Radiant" Investiture. The Person is sharing the "Physical Investiture" the stuff the helps shape Syl into a person in the Physical Realm instead of the windspren type thing she begins as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Scion of the Mists Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, First Witness said: I don't think it's an energy expenditure. The spren is sharing "Knight's Radiant" Investiture. The Person is sharing the "Physical Investiture" the stuff the helps shape Syl into a person in the Physical Realm instead of the windspren type thing she begins as. So Kaladin was feeding Syl Stormlight (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "Physical Investiture"), which enabled her to develop from a mindless, windspren-like thing into a fully conscious Physical Realm honorspren? I always thought of it as an issue with the spren's mind, not their physical composition. That the spren's mind doesn't work well without the bond. We know that there's no problem having multiple Nahel bonds. I guess I'm just confused about why bonding an honorspren and a highspren is okay, but bonding two different honorspren is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 First Witness Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 No I don't think of it as him feeding her stormlight. Their spirit webs are bonding and they -get- some of that cognitive presence from their bond, right? Though, I suppose, you could bond them easily, I don't think you could -elevate- the same one, because the idea is an important part of letting those spren bond with you, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 blackout8444 he/him Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 The biggest problem I see with this is practicality. I'm sure there is some way to bond multiple of the same spren type, but if you're going to bond a second spren, why not get a spren that gives you a whole new set of surges, instead of one which the only new thing you get is a second blade, which you could get with any Nahel bond other than a Bondsmith. As I said, considering the way which investiture works, it is almost guaranteed that there is some way to bond two of the same type of spren, but I personally would rather have two different spren, even if two of the same would give me some level of extra power in those respective surges. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 sheisrysn Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 On 7/17/2019 at 5:24 PM, Steel Inquisitive said: I've seen lots of talk about bonding spren of different orders but what about bonding two spren of the same kind? (Ie bonding two honor spren.) Is it even possible? If no, than why? Would you be able to get a compounding effect like with the honor blades? How much better would your stormlight efficiency be, especially in the early stages? Would saying one oath work to advance you in both bonds or would you need to swear slightly different oaths to each spren? I just got here and WHAT you can bond spren of different orders?? I just tried searching for where this discussion might live but if someone can kindly point me there I'm dying to know more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 RShara she/her Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 2 hours ago, sheisrysn said: I just got here and WHAT you can bond spren of different orders?? I just tried searching for where this discussion might live but if someone can kindly point me there I'm dying to know more! You can find it on Arcanum, wob.coppermind.net. Search for "bond+multiple+spren" or some variation of that, I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Steel Inquisitive he/him
I've seen lots of talk about bonding spren of different orders but what about bonding two spren of the same kind? (Ie bonding two honor spren.)
Is it even possible? If no, than why?
Would you be able to get a compounding effect like with the honor blades?
How much better would your stormlight efficiency be, especially in the early stages?
Would saying one oath work to advance you in both bonds or would you need to swear slightly different oaths to each spren?
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