Game of Thrones (Spoilers for the latest episodes)

[Wander89]

Perhaps the spoiler rule should be that the thread is spoiler-free. It's such a pain reading these spoiler filled posts when the show has now been out a few days.

[+Sorana]

On 1.5.2019 at 11:13 PM, StormingTexan said:

That makes sense but the glaring issue with the strategy is all the your dead comrades become your enemy as soon as Mr Night King does his awakening thing. You would be better off not having them fight at all really or using a lot of artillery (and dragons!) to soften up their lines first instead of charging head first. I get that Jon didn't want to use the dragons until Night King showed up but that decision basically meant the Dothraki were cannon fodder that then turn into combatants. 

So without a spoiler tag now

Nothing to say against that. That's the danger when standing against a "necromancer". I don't really want to defend their strategy. If you have a unit, you can't include then send them away, whatever. But before you let them destroy the other part of your army, then sacrificing them is the smaller evil. In the end all your fallen comrads will stand against you.

Actually I'm watching that episode now for the third time, and I'm still disappointed. I'd hoped for something else.

[Rhapsody]

On 4.5.2019 at 0:04 PM, Sorana said:

So without a spoiler tag now

Nothing to say against that. That's the danger when standing against a "necromancer". I don't really want to defend their strategy. If you have a unit, you can't include then send them away, whatever. But before you let them destroy the other part of your army, then sacrificing them is the smaller evil. In the end all your fallen comrads will stand against you.

Actually I'm watching that episode now for the third time, and I'm still disappointed. I'd hoped for something else.

I agree partly. Still think they could have made better use of them than simply letting them get slaughtered. But I don't think the Dothraki would have handled being sent away that well. I meant they pride themselves on their warrior and horseriding skills and here comes the big battle and they are to be sent away. I'd be pissed in their place. So it was probably the best they could think of without making the Dothraki angry.

Also I agree with Sorana: I was really disappointed with the episode.

[Voidus]

Updated the topic title just to avoid accidentally spoiling for people.

Re: Battle strategy for the Dothraki, should have created a separate pallisade much farther from the wall, they knew which direction the dead would be coming from so wouldn't be difficult. Give it a hundred or so meters between that and the other defenses, Dothraki in between the two. Wights start to break through in places and the Dothraki pick them off as they come through, that way they're fighting small isolated areas with a controlled number of enemies that they can use their momentum against rather than a massive horde which is just going to use their own momentum to crush them.


Latest episode: Still disappointing, so bland and generic and dumb. I think I found out what annoys me about this season: Everyone has apparently lost all intelligence.
They literally talk about how they could possibly kill just Cersei without harming innocents or losing their army while they are standing 3 bloody feet away from a faceless assassin and no one thinks to use her. Or heck, any assassin, at least try it.

[+ZincAboutIt]

2 hours ago, Voidus said:

They literally talk about how they could possibly kill just Cersei without harming innocents or losing their army while they are standing 3 bloody feet away from a faceless assassin and no one thinks to use her. Or heck, any assassin, at least try it.

Seriously why is no one saying this? Come on Bran, you know basically everything, at the very least you should suggest it!  

[Voidus]

Just now, ZincAboutIt said:

Seriously why is no one saying this? Come on Bran, you know basically everything, at the very least you should suggest it!  

Or Arya herself, or just anyone. I mean she just killed their equivalent of satan so I'm pretty sure it's not just that everyone's forgotten about her or doesn't think she's capable of it.

[+ZincAboutIt]

Just now, Voidus said:

Or Arya herself, or just anyone. I mean she just killed their equivalent of satan so I'm pretty sure it's not just that everyone's forgotten about her or doesn't think she's capable of it.

Well at the end she does basically freelance herself out to go kill Cersei so at least there's that. The Night King is all well and good, but he wasn't on The List.

[+Sorana]

Actually the one who annoyed me most was Daenerys. How she talked to John, how she lost another dragon, how she more and more turns into what she wanted to fight. Not surprising, but it's annoying.

I'm not sure if Arya is setting out to kill Cersei. Or rather only Cersei. Might be far stretched, but there are other target in King's Landing as well.

I have to admit I rarely care anymore how they sort themselves in the south. Sansa has the north, and if that stays as it is, I'm happy.

[Voidus]

1 hour ago, ZincAboutIt said:

Well at the end she does basically freelance herself out to go kill Cersei so at least there's that. The Night King is all well and good, but he wasn't on The List.

The part that annoys me is that she didn't specify, and also that 'neither do I' line.
If she is going to kill Cersei then it's pointless to pretend that's not why she's going there, it's not like anyone will be surprised. And if she's not, then why the heck not!?

 

 

1 hour ago, Sorana said:

Actually the one who annoyed me most was Daenerys. How she talked to John, how she lost another dragon, how she more and more turns into what she wanted to fight. Not surprising, but it's annoying.

I'm not sure if Arya is setting out to kill Cersei. Or rather only Cersei. Might be far stretched, but there are other target in King's Landing as well.

I have to admit I rarely care anymore how they sort themselves in the south. Sansa has the north, and if that stays as it is, I'm happy.

Setting Danny up as a future tertiary villain is just monumentally stupid to me, they already have to wrap up so much and this is just annoying and infuriating. I feel like they're doing it to add one final layer of intrigue because now the only potential hidden loyalties are that the people who support Danny might instead support Jon but it's such a mediocre plotline, it's just not interested at all and none of the people who could betray her are going to do it in any kind of a hidden way, they've now killed off the only people who potentially could have pulled off a surprise betrayal.

[+Sorana]

6 minutes ago, Voidus said:

Setting Danny up as a future tertiary villain is just monumentally stupid to me, they already have to wrap up so much and this is just annoying and infuriating. I feel like they're doing it to add one final layer of intrigue because now the only potential hidden loyalties are that the people who support Danny might instead support Jon but it's such a mediocre plotline, it's just not interested at all and none of the people who could betray her are going to do it in any kind of a hidden way, they've now killed off the only people who potentially could have pulled off a surprise betrayal.

I'd hoped that they will give her a chance to look past the throne and do what's right. This working towards a "mad queen" is stupid and it adds nothing for me. At the moment I hope Arya simply kills her and Cersei and that thing is over.

I don't need large battles, I need a good story and I have no idea how they will wrap it up without simply killing almost everybody. A bad ending can destroy a lot for me and right now it feels like I might not like it...

[Voidus]

3 minutes ago, Sorana said:

I'd hoped that they will give her a chance to look past the throne and do what's right. This working towards a "mad queen" is stupid and it adds nothing for me. At the moment I hope Arya simply kills her and Cersei and that thing is over.

I don't need large battles, I need a good story and I have no idea how they will wrap it up without simply killing almost everybody. A bad ending can destroy a lot for me and right now it feels like I might not like it...

Yeah this feels like when the Merlin TV show was ending. A finale that I refuse to acknowledge exists because otherwise it ruined the whole show for me.

[+Sorana]

11 minutes ago, Voidus said:

Yeah this feels like when the Merlin TV show was ending. A finale that I refuse to acknowledge exists because otherwise it ruined the whole show for me.

Exactly, same here. Merlin is a great example.

Their costumes are still great, the scenes and locations beautiful, but all characters act like mindless zombies.

If the next battle is as stupid as the last one ... I'm still annoyed by it. And it looks like it. I mean she just lost a dragon because she wasn't able to turn around. A dragon. I'm frustrated. I had so high expectations, but right now I feel like they lost their grip, like they forcebly try to tell a story, that doesn't fit their story.

[Wander89]

I think the main issue is that it's feeling rushed which takes away from what GoT was/is. We used to enjoy seeing someone travel from King's Landing to Winterfell and it taking 3/4 episodes, meeting others along the way and delving into their character arcs. Now it takes Bronn half an episode to do it and it does not feel completed.

I imagine that if it were fleshed out, the story would be fine. An extra season could have meant the Night King being dealt with one season and Cersei the next but it's almost like they just want it over with.

[+Sorana]

14 minutes ago, Wander89 said:

I think the main issue is that it's feeling rushed which takes away from what GoT was/is. We used to enjoy seeing someone travel from King's Landing to Winterfell and it taking 3/4 episodes, meeting others along the way and delving into their character arcs. Now it takes Bronn half an episode to do it and it does not feel completed.

I imagine that if it were fleshed out, the story would be fine. An extra season could have meant the Night King being dealt with one season and Cersei the next but it's almost like they just want it over with.

I think you're right. If I had more time, maybe I could understand better why they are acting like this and what the reasons are. But right now they left me behind in Winterfell and are already somewhere else.

The only thing left is to hope for a good ending and enjoy their costumes!

[Wander89]

7 minutes ago, Sorana said:

I think you're right. If I had more time, maybe I could understand better why they are acting like this and what the reasons are. But right now they left me behind in Winterfell and are already somewhere else.

The only thing left is to hope for a good ending and enjoy their costumes!

Yeah it's made me wonder if the previous seasons were better because there was much more source material and GRRM only gave them an outline for this season. Looks like the writers haven't been able to fill in the blanks to the standard we expect which is a shame.

[The Sovereign]

Just a few predictions for the last two episodes for timestamp purposes:

 

-Bronn will kill Tyrion (Still possible, now I'll go with Dany burns him)
-The Mountain will kill Grey Worm (nope)
-The Hound will kill The Mountain (yup)
-Arya will kill Cersei (Valonqar like many proper nouns in High Valyrian is gender neutral) (nope)
-Varys will kill Jon and then be executed for it by Dany (half right)

Edited May 13, 2019 by The Sovereign
Not great on my predictions.

[Voidus]

13 hours ago, Wander89 said:

I think the main issue is that it's feeling rushed which takes away from what GoT was/is. We used to enjoy seeing someone travel from King's Landing to Winterfell and it taking 3/4 episodes, meeting others along the way and delving into their character arcs. Now it takes Bronn half an episode to do it and it does not feel completed.

I imagine that if it were fleshed out, the story would be fine. An extra season could have meant the Night King being dealt with one season and Cersei the next but it's almost like they just want it over with.

I also think they really needed to swap the order that they dealt with these two around. After dealing with the massive army of undead hellbent on ending all life in the world and defeating the epitome of evil in the world it really makes all the scenes where they plead with Cersei and she acts petty fall really flat.

No battle from here on is going to feel as impactful because of what came before it.

[Kaymyth]

I am extremely annoyed with Rhaegal's fate. There's no way those ballistae could have possibly been that accurate from that distance against a moving target to hit him even once, let alone the three bolts that brought him down. And that's before you even consider the fact that they were mounted on constantly-in-motion ships, not good, solid ground.

 

[Voidus]

On 5/12/2019 at 7:12 AM, Kaymyth said:

I am extremely annoyed with Rhaegal's fate. There's no way those ballistae could have possibly been that accurate from that distance against a moving target to hit him even once, let alone the three bolts that brought him down. And that's before you even consider the fact that they were mounted on constantly-in-motion ships, not good, solid ground.

 

As with so much of this season it felt incredibly meaningless for me. There was no set up, no consequences or morning or impact, just another dragon that's now gone. I mean I'm guessing that they wanted to show a reason why the dragons couldn't just raze the entire city because if it was just about whittling down the dragons then they had plenty of opportunity to kill them in the battle for winterfell. But yeah, having that happen when they tried to talk to Cersei would have been way more impactful and made actual sense. A wall-mounted Ballistae firing at a stationary target in order to make a point and drive the armies apart again.

[Wander89]

I liked the episode last night in terms of cinematography but the storyline is far far too convulated to entertain and it's obvious that it's being pushed forward with no real impact any longer. It needed more seasons and I'm gutted that HBO were willing to offer the funds and this opportunity wasn't taken. Miguel Sapochnik can make any fight scene look fantastic though.

[Voidus]

What. The. Hell.

[StormingTexan]

It is clear the show runners are completely clueless without GRRM writing the story for them. This episode was just a hot mess. Everything is rushed. Nothing really matters. Nothing makes any sense. This one episode needed at least a half a season to unfold properly and create tension. 

So Varys a master spy is just running around shouting from the mountain top to everyone he can find that Danny is unfit to rule? Then Tyrion just says sorry bro you are about to be charcoal. 

Danny easily wipes out the Iron Fleet, all the scorpions on the wall the entire pointless Golden Company (if only they had their elephants)  in a matter of minutes. I still do not understand why she didn't take out the Iron Fleet right after they miraculously killed Rhaegal. It made what already felt like a pointless dragon death even more pointless. I mean I understand they are not exactly pros at surface to air combat but no one thought to have 360 coverage of the sky? The scorpions were made out to be a super weapon all the way up until Danny said nah I'll just blow them all up. 

I get Danny was destined to go Mad Queen mode but it felt meaningless without the proper amount of build up. Basically it was just a light switch turned on and she was crazy. It has been foreshadowed yes but her character was never properly developed into the Mad Queen in my opinion. She could have just flown to the Red Keep and destroyed it. She didn't need to destroy the entire city and all the citizens. I guess this had to happen for the inevitable Jon vs Danny show down next episode...

Cersi and Jamie die holding each other as the basement of the red keep collapses. Just wow.. What happened to the prophecies? Not sure if this could have been done in a more anticlimactic way if they tried. 

 

 

[The Kraken's Daughter]

On 5/11/2019 at 5:42 PM, Kaymyth said:

I am extremely annoyed with Rhaegal's fate. There's no way those ballistae could have possibly been that accurate from that distance against a moving target to hit him even once, let alone the three bolts that brought him down. And that's before you even consider the fact that they were mounted on constantly-in-motion ships, not good, solid ground.

 

Rhaegal's death didn't have nearly as much impact for me as Viserion's did. And it would have been so easy for them to make it somewhat plausible. We saw at the beginning of the episode that Rhaegal hasn't completely recovered from the Battle of Winterfell. So you could have had the ships fire a bolt or two, and Dany takes Drogon up out of their range. Rhaegal tries to follow, but it's obvious that he's struggling to gain altitude, and he just can't climb fast enough. That would have worked fine, and shouldn't have taken much more effort than what they actually did.

 

On 5/13/2019 at 10:24 AM, StormingTexan said:

It is clear the show runners are completely clueless without GRRM writing the story for them. This episode was just a hot mess. Everything is rushed. Nothing really matters. Nothing makes any sense. This one episode needed at least a half a season to unfold properly and create tension. 

So Varys a master spy is just running around shouting from the mountain top to everyone he can find that Danny is unfit to rule? Then Tyrion just says sorry bro you are about to be charcoal. 

Danny easily wipes out the Iron Fleet, all the scorpions on the wall the entire pointless Golden Company (if only they had their elephants)  in a matter of minutes. I still do not understand why she didn't take out the Iron Fleet right after they miraculously killed Rhaegal. It made what already felt like a pointless dragon death even more pointless. I mean I understand they are not exactly pros at surface to air combat but no one thought to have 360 coverage of the sky? The scorpions were made out to be a super weapon all the way up until Danny said nah I'll just blow them all up. 

I get Danny was destined to go Mad Queen mode but it felt meaningless without the proper amount of build up. Basically it was just a light switch turned on and she was crazy. It has been foreshadowed yes but her character was never properly developed into the Mad Queen in my opinion. She could have just flown to the Red Keep and destroyed it. She didn't need to destroy the entire city and all the citizens. I guess this had to happen for the inevitable Jon vs Danny show down next episode...

Cersi and Jamie die holding each other as the basement of the red keep collapses. Just wow.. What happened to the prophecies? Not sure if this could have been done in a more anticlimactic way if they tried. 

 

 

Cersei's death felt really anticlimactic to me too.

Supposedly, Dany burning KL is one of the plot points GRRM gave the showrunners. But I feel like the books are already setting up a tension between her desire to build a better world and the "Fire and Blood" ethos of the Targs. She thinks about how she just wants to have peace and plant trees, but "dragons plant no trees." She has that dream/vision where she hears someone telling her to "remember your words, remember what you are." And there's probably another book and a half to go before we get to the downfall of KL. I think the books will have a good setup for Mad Queen Dany if that's where GRRM goes, but the show just didn't give any buildup at all. (And it's also possible that the context of her burning the city will be different. Maybe they don't surrender and she chooses to attack, accepting that there will be collateral damage. Maybe she tries to do targeted strikes on military barracks, but Cersei's hid caches of wildfire so the whole city goes up in flames. Maybe there's a plague in the city and she has to make a terrible choice about whether to risk it spreading.) Regardless, I think the books will handle that plot point a lot better than the show did.

 

[Voidus]

Honestly I don't even want the books to be finished now. If the ending is completely different and actually good then it'll still feel hollow and I'll be endlessly wondering why GRRM didn't give the writers better direction, and if it's the same then I don't want to have to go through this again.

This season has completely destroyed my enjoyment of the entire series, I don't know if I'll be able to rewatch or reread it again without it feeling bitter due to what I know happens.

[+ZincAboutIt]

Basically the only thing I liked about last night's episode was Arya's scene running through the city. It was shot well and I think she did a good job and it fit with her character. 

Also I will be endlessly bitter about Jamie's stupid death forever. Jamie!! Ugh. I just want to throw things. He was supposed to be the "younger brother" in the prophecy, I was SO SURE of it! I am so mad. *table flip*