CosmereScholar Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 I thought it would be useful to gather a list of potential plot holes in the Cosmere, in the same spirit as the typo threads. Here are the questions that I have. What have you all noticed? To clarify, I mean problems in character motivations and plot, not physics or magic. The Way of Kings Why did Dalinar’s visions not reveal that the Voidbringers are Parshmen? With the amount of visions Dalinar saw of the desolations, what are the odds none of them showed that the voidbringers were Parshmen? The only explanation I can think of is that Honor wished to conceal this fact. But, why would he want this? And surely this would become obvious when the Desolation actually started. Why did Honor not create an avatar to answer Dalinar’s questions? Yes, I know it is theorised in Oathbringer that perhaps he could not create a simulacrum of himself. But he could have made an incomplete model like the others in the visions, with at least enough knowledge to explain what the desolations were. He should have known the Stormfather would hardly be forthcoming. Mistborn: The Final Empire Why did Vin not disguise herself when breaking into the Lord Ruler’s palace the first time? This risked her cover, and they were lucky that the only survivors who saw them were the Inquisitors, who did not generally mix with the nobles. Bands of Morning Why did MeLaan not mention ReLuur’s spike when the team considers what to do? This is not so serious, but I thought it was very odd that MeLaan, and none of the others, mentions the spike when they are on the ship and debating whether to go to the temple or back for help. ReLuur was losing his memories, and while the potential loss of the Bands would have been devastating enough to convince them to go forward, this is a serious consequence of their actions, and their original mission. 1
+Invocation Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, CosmereScholar said: Mistborn: The Final Empire Why did Vin not disguise herself when breaking into the Lord Ruler’s palace the first time? This risked her cover, and they were lucky that the only survivors who saw them were the Inquisitors, who did not generally mix with the nobles. Not really a plot hole, as addressed during the pewter drag scene: a waifish Mistborn, met in combat and dressed in dark clothes, is hard to connect to the court-bound countrywoman of a noble that is Valette. 27 minutes ago, CosmereScholar said: Bands of Morning Why did MeLaan not mention ReLuur’s spike when the team considers what to do? This is not so serious, but I thought it was very odd that MeLaan, and none of the others, mentions the spike when they are on the ship and debating whether to go to the temple or back for help. ReLuur was losing his memories, and while the potential loss of the Bands would have been devastating enough to convince them to go forward, this is a serious consequence of their actions, and their original mission. Because she already had. They all knew the stakes, and MeLaan had said earlier that the memories and full sapience would be restored if there was any sort of charge left, and that the spikes were powerful enough to continue to hold their charges for a while, long enough that a short detour wouldn't impact it overmuch, especially as Harmony would know where MeLaan had fallen if the worst were to happen and they wouldn't have to have a manhunt, since a kandra could just be sent directly there. Edited March 23, 2019 by Invocation 2
Weltall Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 40 minutes ago, CosmereScholar said: Why did Honor not create an avatar to answer Dalinar’s questions? Yes, I know it is theorised in Oathbringer that perhaps he could not create a simulacrum of himself. But he could have made an incomplete model like the others in the visions, with at least enough knowledge to explain what the desolations were. He should have known the Stormfather would hardly be forthcoming. We know that it's possible for Shards to create independent avatars but the only one known to actually do this is Bavadin and we don't know whether there are consequences of this (that Tanavast might not have wanted to deal with) or how much time and effort it takes to create one. Bear in mind that by the time he started recording these visions, he was dying. Creating an avatar like Bavadin might well have been impossible and creating a Splinter, ensuring it develops sapience and giving it more precise information to convey might well have been beyond him at that point too. 3
+Zodiac he/him Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 Brandon answers your first question if Oathbringer. He saw the Fused but he did not connect them to the parshendi because he was distracted by the newness of the visions. It was obvious to Dalinar who they where in retrospect 3
CosmereScholar Posted March 25, 2019 Author Posted March 25, 2019 You are all correct that many explainations could be provided to explain these. But, in my opinion, the evidence you have provided is not satisfactory. These require some further comment. In particular, we do know that ReLuur’s memories would not have returned completely. It has been stated multiple times that the Kandra sustain permanent damage the longer their spike has been pulled.
Lidolas he/him Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 On 3/22/2019 at 9:53 PM, CosmereScholar said: The Way of Kings Why did Dalinar’s visions not reveal that the Voidbringers are Parshmen? With the amount of visions Dalinar saw of the desolations, what are the odds none of them showed that the voidbringers were Parshmen? The only explanation I can think of is that Honor wished to conceal this fact. But, why would he want this? And surely this would become obvious when the Desolation actually started. I'm not certain of the timeline, but I don't think parshmen (slave form) were around when Honor started losing his mind. I think they weren't around until after the False Desolation. Tanavast might not have thought to warn the humans about them because if Melishi hadn't taken the Connection and Identity from them, it would be clear that the singers/listeners/Parshendi were "Voidbringers" 3
Nightblade Posted April 3, 2019 Posted April 3, 2019 On 3/22/2019 at 10:53 PM, CosmereScholar said: The Way of Kings Why did Dalinar’s visions not reveal that the Voidbringers are Parshmen? With the amount of visions Dalinar saw of the desolations, what are the odds none of them showed that the voidbringers were Parshmen? The only explanation I can think of is that Honor wished to conceal this fact. But, why would he want this? And surely this would become obvious when the Desolation actually started. 2 Dalinar did see parshendi in the visions, in oathbringer. He mentions that he thought they were just parshmen back in the day and nothing to worry about.
The Young Pyromancer he/him Posted April 5, 2019 Posted April 5, 2019 On 3/22/2019 at 10:44 PM, Weltall said: he was dying. And also going insane.
notAustere Posted May 8, 2019 Posted May 8, 2019 On 3/26/2019 at 0:54 PM, Lidolas said: Melishi hadn't taken the Connection and Identity from them, it would be clear that the singers/listeners/Parshendi were "Voidbringers" Can you elaborate on this please? Not in the context of the thread's question, but in general Cosmere science.
Calderis he/him Posted May 8, 2019 Posted May 8, 2019 The "Connection and Identity" taken from them is... Not as literal as most of the usage of those words in cosmere books. Spoilers for Emperors Soul Spoiler Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] In terms of discussing Identity, I know that in Emperor's Soul, they talk about Identity, and the Parshendi talk about losing their Identity, and then I was just rereading Bands of Mourning, and one of the kandra talks about how the spikes are their Identity. Are all of those things connected somehow or are they different forms of Identity? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] They are connected, although the Parshendi losing their identity is a little more metaphorical. But yeah, the idea of these things-- Identity is an innate attribute in the cosmere that is related to your soul, your spirit, and it is one of the things that Hemalurgy can fiddle with and Feruchemy can fiddle with. It's kind of important to how the [Metallic] Arts play out, but it's important to all the magics... Identity is involved in why you can't use another person's metalminds, right, that kind of thing. And those are all related. The Parshendi is more metaphorical. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] I wondered because it's always capitalized, in the book. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yep, and it's done intentionally. Peter always asks, "Are you sure this one is capitalized?" "Yeah." Orem signing (March 10, 2018) And the relevant line Quote although the Parshendi losing their identity is a little more metaphorical. 1
Karger he/him Posted May 10, 2019 Posted May 10, 2019 On 3/25/2019 at 3:24 PM, CosmereScholar said: In particular, we do know that ReLuur’s memories would not have returned completely. It has been stated multiple times that the Kandra sustain permanent damage the longer their spike has been pulled. Considering the magnitude of the problem. I would not be surprised if it slipped her mind. She is a fallible being. Also one Kanda's life verses a potential civil war and the influx of a ton of new tech. Military science would argue that you not consider him.
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