Book 2 speculation *Spoilers*

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Kaladin is 19, or possibly 20 by the end of the book, Shallan is 17, ,so yes, they are almost the same age.

And I don't think you need to worry about that, Jordan sucked at characterization, for all that he was brilliant at plotting and worldbuilding.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

No you guys! Kaladin can't be paired up with anyone because I want him all to myself! Haha, kidding. Though I have a feeling I'm not going to approve of any romantic interests for Kaladin anytime soon. I suppose I'm just a jealous, possessive fangirl that way. Ha.

Kaladin/Adolin though? I'm not much of a shipper in the first place, and I'm even less inclined towards slash, though I am interested to see how their relationship develops. Non-romantically. I concur with what others have said: I think they'd make really great foils. While Adolin's an awesome person and a wonderful character, Kaladin's still trying to get over his hatred of all lighteyes. Dalinar's sacrifice helped that a little, but I have a feeling that Adolin kind of represents what Kaladin would find shallow. And I can't imagine that Adolin was thrilled with the way Kaladin ordered him around during the battle. There's definitely some interesting ground to cover there.

If I had to pick a romantic relationship to root for, it'd probably be Renarin/Shallan. I just think they'd be adorably sweet together. And of course, Adolin would be trying to win Shallan's affections the whole time, and is baffled when she chooses his brother over him. It'd be adorable.

[Yados]

Kaladin/Adolin though? I'm not much of a shipper in the first place, and I'm even less inclined towards slash, though I am interested to see how their relationship develops. Non-romantically. I concur with what others have said: I think they'd make really great foils. While Adolin's an awesome person and a wonderful character, Kaladin's still trying to get over his hatred of all lighteyes. Dalinar's sacrifice helped that a little, but I have a feeling that Adolin kind of represents what Kaladin would find shallow. And I can't imagine that Adolin was thrilled with the way Kaladin ordered him around during the battle. There's definitely some interesting ground to cover there.

Exactly. But you forget that it's the proximity they'll be forced into by their shared goal, the protection of Dalinar, that's going to take those feelings and provide a catalyst for change on both their parts. Not only do they have to work with one another, which they would be reluctant to do for the reasons you pointed out, but they'll each grow to doubt their own outlook just a bit because each sees someone with the opposite life path/values who is just as driven towards Dalinar's ideals as they are.

... and then they become "friends".

If I had to pick a romantic relationship to root for, it'd probably be Renarin/Shallan. I just think they'd be adorably sweet together. And of course, Adolin would be trying to win Shallan's affections the whole time, and is baffled when she chooses his brother over him. It'd be adorable.

Am I the only one who feels like Renarin is going to be an antagonist in this book?

Maybe it's because we really only get to see him through the eyes of Adolin and Dalinar, who have huge blindspots towards him. Maybe it's because we know that all the other Alethi nobles are uncomfortable around him because of the way he observes them. Maybe because we're about to see, by way of Renarin, someone with no power fall into immense power (shardplate) without really doing anything to earn it (sort of a theme of the book). Maybe it's because he's not a pov.

But mostly because that oath Dalinar swore to him is a *huge* Chekov's Gun that could easily undo any Surgebinding Dalinar might achieve in the next few books.

To explain:

Dalinar swore to Renarin that the next set of plate and blade he captured will go to him. Instead, Dalinar is giving Renarin his own plate. That wasn't the oath. If Dalinar doesn't give Renarin a shardblade and a second set of plate, he's technically breaking his oath. And that could have real ramifications in this cosmology/magic system. And by that time, Renarin might have had enough of a taste of power to hold Dalinar to that oath.

But yeah, I think Renarin is going to be going down a dark path in this book.

Which, of course, doesn't mean he and Shallan won't necessarily get together. She has the potential for some dark paths herself.

[Vikter]

Dalinar swore to Renarin that the next set of plate and blade he captured will go to him. Instead, Dalinar is giving Renarin his own plate. That wasn't the oath. If Dalinar doesn't give Renarin a shardblade and a second set of plate, he's technically breaking his oath. And that could have real ramifications in this cosmology/magic system. And by that time, Renarin might have had enough of a taste of power to hold Dalinar to that oath.

I would have to disagree with this part of your statement, I don't think that just because he did not win the share plate in battle that it is not filling his part of the oath. He promised Renarin shardplate and he deliver on it, how he got it to him should not count against the fact that he still kept is promise. In fact I feel like it would only strengthen his Nahel bond (which is undoubtedly developing) because he kept his oath through great personal sacrifice and to a person who need protecting.

[Yados]

I would have to disagree with this part of your statement, I don't think that just because he did not win the share plate in battle that it is not filling his part of the oath. He promised Renarin shardplate and he deliver on it, how he got it to him should not count against the fact that he still kept is promise. In fact I feel like it would only strengthen his Nahel bond (which is undoubtedly developing) because he kept his oath through great personal sacrifice and to a person who need protecting.

And I have to disagree as well. The oath was very specific:

“I give you my oath, son. If I can capture another Blade and Plate, they will go to you.” He smiled. “To be honest, I’d do it simply for the joy of seeing Sadeas’s face when you become a full Shardbearer. Beyond that, if your strength is made equal to others, I expect that your natural skill will make you shine.”

And it has been in no way fulfilled by Dalinar's actions at the end of the book.

[Vikter]

It all comes down to the Intent of his oath, which was to even the playing field for his sickly son. He fulfilled that intent by giving up his own plate, which is why I feel it qualifies. But as always no one can know for sure until the Word of God is put to paper an sold in Barnes an Nobles.

[Yados]

It all comes down to the Intent of his oath, which was to even the playing field for his sickly son. He fulfilled that intent by giving up his own plate, which is why I feel it qualifies. But as always no one can know for sure until the Word of God is put to paper an sold in Barnes an Nobles.

I mean, I certainly believe that Dalinar sees this as his oath fulfilled. So does Renarin for that matter. At least now. And Dalinar's sacrifice probably strengthened his Nathel Bond. He hasn't broken his oath as of yet.

But with emphasis on oaths and bindings in this work, I think it's important to see what exactly everyone is binding themselves to do. There may be a time in this series where everyone has to be very careful about what they oath. But right now, they don't know really about this power. Which is why I think this oath, which looks like it's been fulfilled but hasn't been carried out to its letter-- Dalinar doesn't promise to get Renarin plate but to give him the next plate and blade he wins-- is a huge gun on the mantle.

Because if Dalinar does win another plate and blade and he doesn't give it to Renarin, he *is* breaking that oath.

[Windrunner he/him]

Am I the only one who feels like Renarin is going to be an antagonist in this book?

Maybe it's because we really only get to see him through the eyes of Adolin and Dalinar, who have huge blindspots towards him. Maybe it's because we know that all the other Alethi nobles are uncomfortable around him because of the way he observes them. Maybe because we're about to see, by way of Renarin, someone with no power fall into immense power (shardplate) without really doing anything to earn it (sort of a theme of the book). Maybe it's because he's not a pov.

I don't see Renarin as an antagonist. Renarin is a man who is trying to make his way through a war-zone that he is unable to fight in because of his disability. He tries to follow the masculine ideal but is both largely uninterested (his true interest lie in other areas) and incapable of being the typical warrior man. He doesn't follow the typical gender roles so that's one of the things that, in my opinion, make people nervous around him, not any real dangerous or evil behavior. That's why Dalinar wants him to be an ardent, so he will fall outside the gender roles and be able to both follow his passion and be accepted by those around him. That being said, Renarin's intelligence level would make him a frightening antagonist.

But mostly because that oath Dalinar swore to him is a *huge* Chekov's Gun that could easily undo any Surgebinding Dalinar might achieve in the next few books.

I think it's really unlikely that this oath will prevent him from becoming a Surgebinder. Note that he said "if I capture any more Shards". Since Dalinar has given up his, and has now become a more tactical general, that is now an impossibility, he will never win any more Shards. So, in my opinion, his oath is fulfilled.

[kari-no-sugata]

Am I the only one who feels like Renarin is going to be an antagonist in this book?

Maybe it's because we really only get to see him through the eyes of Adolin and Dalinar, who have huge blindspots towards him. Maybe it's because we know that all the other Alethi nobles are uncomfortable around him because of the way he observes them. Maybe because we're about to see, by way of Renarin, someone with no power fall into immense power (shardplate) without really doing anything to earn it (sort of a theme of the book). Maybe it's because he's not a pov.

I was going to post saying this feels a bit unfair on "quiet" Renarin but after thinking about it for a bit something along these lines seems quite plausible.

After all, Renarin is going to be there for a reason, story-wise (though there's other possibilities of course). He hasn't had much training or battle experience so this is going to be a very big change for him. In the original version of Way of Kings (from 10+ years ago) I believe Kaladin was originally supposed to make the easy but wrong decision to take up the Shards he'd won. Maybe part of that will fall to Renarin?

For example, there definitely seems to be some corrupting influence that manifests as the "Thrill". It's quite possible that this could corrupt Renarin more than most because it's more sudden for him. Unless things go very badly very quickly I dont see him becoming an "antagonist" but maybe a small but additional problem for some of the protagonists that may also help then understand more of the big picture - a fine distinction perhaps though.

I remember Navani saying that the intensity Dalinar had in his youth scared her. Maybe Renarin takes after Dalinar more in this respect?

[kari-no-sugata]

I think it's really unlikely that this oath will prevent him from becoming a Surgebinder. Note that he said "if I capture any more Shards". Since Dalinar has given up his, and has now become a more tactical general, that is now an impossibility, he will never win any more Shards. So, in my opinion, his oath is fulfilled.

Yup, it doesn't seem to be a problem to me - "if X happens I'll do Y". If X doesn't happen doesn't mean he can't do Y anyway.

On a side-note, I would suspect that for any oaths, the "spirit" of the oath will be more important than the precise "letter" - ie weasel-worders need not apply. Otherwise, it would be too chaotic.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Okay, if Renarin goes evil, I will seriously be unable to handle myself. Especially if it's jealousy from his brother being better at the masculine arts. The last thing I need is another overshadowed, second-best, younger brother who goes to the dark side, lashing out from his hurt and anger. (I'm not quite over Loki yet. Can you tell?)

I don't think there's too much chance of that happening, though. Renarin seems way too sweet and he doesn't seem too jealous of Adolin. Even with Shardplate, I don't think he's going to go crazy with the new power or anything like that. Renarin is a more grounded character. He's more mature than that.

I'm not sure what his purpose as a character will be yet, but I just don't see it as an antagonist. Though, this is Brandon we're talking about, so anything goes.

[Yados]

Yup, it doesn't seem to be a problem to me - "if X happens I'll do Y". If X doesn't happen doesn't mean he can't do Y anyway.

On a side-note, I would suspect that for any oaths, the "spirit" of the oath will be more important than the precise "letter" - ie weasel-worders need not apply. Otherwise, it would be too chaotic.

I didn't say that he broke his oath by giving Renarin plate, merely that *if* he does capture a set of plate and blade and *doesn't* give it to Renarin, he's broken his oath regardless of his other actions.

[kari-no-sugata]

Oops, I kept meaning to reply to this, but this thread has been rather busy of late

Oh, see, I didn't mean "cool girl" like action hero or tomboy, though sometimes it does mean the latter.

I meant "cool girl" as the girl who has no female friends, who grew up with all brothers and that's what makes her not fit in with girls her age/not like the other girls. Usually female characters identify as it for why they have masculine traits or can do random feats of fighting/car mechanics but its also often used for the sort of socially maladjusted girl who only has guy friends.

Now, of course, Shallan had no friends at all growing up (it seems) so I don't know if she'll fit the trope, but it's just a set up that set off the warning light in my head. We'll see how she's played when she has to deal with other girls her own age.

Shallan's eldest living brother does have a betrothed (Eylita) who does the actual writing with the spanreeds. Obviously she's living at the manor but I dont remember any indication of how long she's been living there for. There's no personal greeting between Eylita and Shallan either. The only comment I can find on her personality is from p458: Eylita was the only scribe they could trust, and she... well, she was incredibly nice but not very clever.

I'm guessing that Eylita was living at the manor before the father died but there's no way to be sure - if she came after then they would have had to take a lot more risks. On the other hand, Shallan thinks of her brothers a lot but almost never about Eylita. Well, either way Shallan knows Eylita somewhat, though they dont come across as being friends - I'm guessing Eylita is poorly educated and doesn't have Shallan's passion for science and art that led her to teach herself.

So... Shallan has definitely met with some of her female peers but no indication of any real friends.

In terms of dealing with society, Shallan seems to be able to get by ok. She's had nurses and tutors and read books - she has a rough idea of what to expect in many cases. Consider these two lines from page 70 (when she enters the Conclave for the first time): She felt far more comfortable than she had outdoors. This place - with its bustling servants, its lesser brighlords and brightladies - was familiar.

When we see Shallan going somewhere for the first time or meeting someone for the first time I dont get a "fish out of water" feeling from her though clearly some things she has more experience with than others. In general she seems to get along with people, though her tongue does cause her the odd problem. However, we haven't seen her deal with a group of people - and it's specifically mentioned that she gets particularly shy when lots of others are talking (or at least has in the past).

I dont remember any other characters saying Shallan isn't feminine enough or seem to think so. I dont get any sense that she feels she has more in common with her brothers than other women - she seems very well aware of the distinctions between what men and women are expected to study, and this seems to be fully consistent with how other characters view the culture. I dont remember her ever referring to some skill she learned from her brothers - they did encourage her to speak her mind, something which isn't considered to be a proper feminine trait but that seems to be about it.

I dont remember Jasnah worrying about Shallan not being feminine enough.... and I'm sure Jasnah will be able to give Shallan some pointers about court life too.

So in short... I think Shallan will do ok in the warcamp social side, even at the start. She might well have trouble with large groups or more aggressive/confrontational characters. Her tongue might well get her into trouble too. I suspect she has little idea what to expect (and of course no real experience) from politics and related dark arts. I guess it's also possible that she could come across as overly keen (ie nerd-ish) on some feminine arts/subjects too. She doesn't seem to consider herself particularly attractive either, but this doesn't seem to be a big problem. I dont get a sense that she'd feel socially awkward around lighteyed women around her age or feel more comfortable with young lighted men.

Sorry for the rambling post. Rather than simply disagree with you, I kinda collected every scrap of info I could remember on the topic, both for and against.

[Vikter]

I didn't say that he broke his oath by giving Renarin plate, merely that *if* he does capture a set of plate and blade and *doesn't* give it to Renarin, he's broken his oath regardless of his other actions.

I don't think that would be the case, because his intent when is made the oath would have been validated when he gave up his Plate the oath would be completed. If that is the case then it would not matter if another set of plate or a blade comes into into Dalinar's possession, though unlikely due to his new ranking, would not matter because because he would have filled the oath already. If I owed you $100 and said "I swear I will pay you back with my next check from work" and then find a $100 bill on the ground and give it to you would I still have to pay you the money out of my next check? I would you would not hold me to paying you a seperate $100 from my paycheck just because I swore to give it to you from there. I fill my promise, the debt is payed, everyone is on the level, no problems.

Honor is more about making sure what is right is accomplished not matter if it is not exactly what is sworn. Kaladin managed to atract the first Honorspren in hundreds of year not by holding to the exact letter of what he told his parents what he would do (bring Tein home safe). In fact he failed totally at that task, his brother got killed in front of him, he attracted the Honorspren by saving the lives of people who need protecting. Because of that fact I cannot see any effect on a Nahel bond just by him not giving a new set of plate to his son.

But again, I could be completely wrong. No one will but until we read the next book or two.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Windrunner
Gotcha covered dude. I dropped a couple words so it flows

[kari-no-sugata]

Sailors have always been special cases as they tend to go all over and crews can be made up of different nationalities, especially in fantasy. I can just imagine them trussing her up if she tried to boss them around though, and she probably knew that.

There's no suggestion (that I can see) of that in the book itself though - this is also a very long way from your line earlier where you suggested "She would probably faint if someone actually told her to do something herself unless they were from a vastly superior family."

Yalb seems fond of Shallan and Shallan seems to be relaxed around the sailors (except when they're teasing her). It's also explicitly stated in the book the Shallan's father was an investor in the captain's business, which is why she's getting a big discount - she should have upper hand in this regard. If she wanted to bend them to her whims or at least back off a bit, she could use that angle, but there's no indication she thought of doing that. She doesn't give any indication of resenting them (or they her). In short, I dont get a sense of one side pushing the other around.

On a side note: I wonder if there's much chance that the captain could be part of the Ghostbloods?

I do not think she is a bad character. She is just young, inexperienced, and used to getting her way due to being spoiled. Kaladin is approximately her age group, at least it appeared that way to me, and he has been hardened by years of war. One she gains experience, she will probably mellow out and become a favorite character, unless Sanderson takes her down the same road that Egwene went down in that she became MORE obnoxious and entitled the more she experienced.

Hmm... I agree with most of what you say here, but...

Let's try a slightly different tack. If we compare Shallan to her peers (middle-rank lighteyed young women), do you think she is "used to getting her way due to being spoiled"? Given her background and comparing to her peers, do you think she is more/less/similarly spoiled?

I would be surprised if other lighteyed women thought she had been spoiled. I certainly think she had little freedom - her father comes across as being tyrannical as well as abusive: she wasn't even allowed to draw pictures of darkeyed people (contrast this to Laral) and had her devotary chosen for her. She doesn't come out and say/think it but I suspect she hated her father.

[Yados]

I don't think that would be the case, because his intent when is made the oath would have been validated when he gave up his Plate the oath would be completed. If that is the case then it would not matter if another set of plate or a blade comes into into Dalinar's possession, though unlikely due to his new ranking, would not matter because because he would have filled the oath already. If I owed you $100 and said "I swear I will pay you back with my next check from work" and then find a $100 bill on the ground and give it to you would I still have to pay you the money out of my next check? I would you would not hold me to paying you a seperate $100 from my paycheck just because I swore to give it to you from there. I fill my promise, the debt is payed, everyone is on the level, no problems.

Honor is more about making sure what is right is accomplished not matter if it is not exactly what is sworn. Kaladin managed to atract the first Honorspren in hundreds of year not by holding to the exact letter of what he told his parents what he would do (bring Tein home safe). In fact he failed totally at that task, his brother got killed in front of him, he attracted the Honorspren by saving the lives of people who need protecting. Because of that fact I cannot see any effect on a Nahel bond just by him not giving a new set of plate to his son.

But again, I could be completely wrong. No one will but until we read the next book or two.

See, but your metaphor isn't analogous to the situation.

If you tell me you'll give me the next hundred dollars you earn and then you give me eighty from your own wallet five minutes later (Renarin didn't get a blade. That was part of the oath) that's great. But it isn't what you promised.

You promised to give me the next hundred dollars you earned. You might say that the debt is paid, and I might not hold you to it, but if I do... well, you promised something very specific which you fulfilled in no way.

Dalinar hasn't broken his word *yet* but if he wins a plate/blade, he either gives it to Renarin or breaks his word. I don't see the wiggle room here.

Oaths are important here. The prologue to the entire series is two men, standing on a rock, talking about breaking their oath. Syl is Honor Spren, Spirit of Oaths. I think it's very important we look at who is promising what to whom and how that might play out down the line. Dalinar meant that he would get Renarin a plate and blade. He should have oathed it. But he didn't. Intent probably plays into it, but if the magic system didn't have a weakness, it wouldn't be interesting.

Hell, Kaladin has great intention all through the book, but it isn't until he says the words of the Radiants that he gets that ooomph. This is Roshar. Words have power.

[Asha'man Logain]

See, but your metaphor isn't analogous to the situation.

If you tell me you'll give me the next hundred dollars you earn and then you give me eighty from your own wallet five minutes later (Renarin didn't get a blade. That was part of the oath) that's great. But it isn't what you promised.

You promised to give me the next hundred dollars you earned. You might say that the debt is paid, and I might not hold you to it, but if I do... well, you promised something very specific which you fulfilled in no way.

Dalinar hasn't broken his word *yet* but if he wins a plate/blade, he either gives it to Renarin or breaks his word. I don't see the wiggle room here.

Oaths are important here. The prologue to the entire series is two men, standing on a rock, talking about breaking their oath. Syl is Honor Spren, Spirit of Oaths. I think it's very important we look at who is promising what to whom and how that might play out down the line. Dalinar meant that he would get Renarin a plate and blade. He should have oathed it. But he didn't. Intent probably plays into it, but if the magic system didn't have a weakness, it wouldn't be interesting.

Hell, Kaladin has great intention all through the book, but it isn't until he says the words of the Radiants that he gets that ooomph. This is Roshar. Words have power.

I want to disagree. I do in fact think you're incorrect. HOWEVER, this would lend a more enlightening look at Nahadon's comments about Surgebinders. He says (IIRC) that (to paraphrase)not all spren who provide surgebinding powers are as discerning as Honorspren.

What if he meant that all Surgebinders MUST adhere to their Oaths(both the Ideals and normal promises), or abide 'honorably'. But, the Honorspren bonded, keep the intent as well as the letter of the oaths, where as others may only adhere to the letter. While not lying or breaking promises, perhaps providing very misleading fulfillments of their oaths Aes Sedai, or Elven style (depending on the particular flavor of Fantasy).

If we assume Surgebinding is of Honor (pretty much a given) and their access to magic is based on what they do i.e. act honorably, then likely surgebinders (except Szeth of course) would be unable to perform acts of blatant dishonor, without sacrificing power.

Interesting. I do however think that in this particular instance the intent of the oath is far more important than the exact words. Remember this was not an Ideal he spoke, not a 'capital O' Oath, this was a familial promise to his son.

[kari-no-sugata]

Dalinar is very much planning to stay away from the front lines it seems. In addition, he's given up his Blade and Plate already. So the chance of him beating Shardbearer now are quite remote... but maybe if he gets hold of some serious new power then it might become realistic - dont forget that he's been using Shards for 30+ years, so we shouldn't expect him to be effective without it.

So, I dont expect this scenario to come about. But it was interesting to mull over. I also hope we dont see such lawyer-like arguments over words, intentions and so on...

Another thing to consider though: I dont think all "oaths" will be equally important. Maybe like with Awakening, some words are much more important than others even if there might not be an immediate reason why. The oaths swearing to an Ideal seem super-critical, for example - though I imagine they need to be backed up with actions on an on-going basis too.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Yeah, I really think that in most cases the spirit of the oath is going to be more important then the exact wording, words are too easy to twist in a way that completely negates the promise. Which is totally not honourable.

[Yados]

Yeah, I really think that in most cases the spirit of the oath is going to be more important then the exact wording, words are too easy to twist in a way that completely negates the promise. Which is totally not honourable.

Sure, but it wouldn't be honorable people who would twist words and hold people to the letter of their oath.

Isn't a theme of the book the price of being honorable in a world where most are not? Isn't that a struggle that both Kaladin and Dalinar face?

[Windrunner he/him]

Sure, but it wouldn't be honorable people who would twist words and hold people to the letter of their oath.

Exactly, they follow the spirit of the oath, because they are good people, if they weren't then someone might get technical about how Dalinar didn't "capture" the Plate. But it wouldn't matter, and I think Adolin wouldn't hesitate to give anyone who did this a nice Plate assisted smack for being so asinine.

Isn't a theme of the book the price of being honorable in a world where most are not? Isn't that a struggle that both Kaladin and Dalinar face?

That's true, and I'm sure that theme will be reflected in the conflicts of the Stormlight Archive. I do not think that this oath will have any effect on Dalinar's potential Surgebinding or even the plot of the books at all, except for the obvious of Renarin now having Plate. If, "I will give my son Plate" was an Oath of the Knights Radiant, then we'd run into some problems. But no one cares where the Plate came from, the fact is that Renarin has it, and that's really all that matters in my opinion.

[Zas678 he/him]

I'm with Yados on this one. I think that something is going to happen with Dalinar's Oath, and it's not going to be pretty. If it wasn't going to be a big deal, than Brandon wouldn't have the oath be so specific.

As for ramifications on becoming a Knight Radiant... I'm not sure.

[kari-no-sugata]

My gut feeling is that Dalinar's oath to Renarin wont become a hostage to fortune.

When I try to think of how such a scene could be explained in a novel, my mind rebels - it just feels ungainly, awkward and risks making the magic system a deus ex machina. It's entirely possible I could be dead wrong, but those are my current feelings.

I very much doubt that any possible oath within Roshar is equally powerful / constraining. Like with Awakening Commands, some will be a lot more powerful than others. For example, to me it seems like the first Oath of Knights Radiant is not nearly so magical as the second one - at least, I dont remember any suddenly power-up unlike when Kaladin invokes his Second Oath at the end of the book. So I suspect it was something entirely of human invention to help bind the various orders together and give them better direction.

[parvoneh]

I didn't say that he broke his oath by giving Renarin plate, merely that *if* he does capture a set of plate and blade and *doesn't* give it to Renarin, he's broken his oath regardless of his other actions.

The only unmatched Blade we know of is Shallan's. I don't see her learning swordplay; first, it's too masculine and she's too traditional; second, she's got Soulcasting to master and presumably that's as incompatible with Plate as Surgebinding seeing is it drains Stormlight from gems, so it's superfluous as well as a reminder of the death of her father. She's headed to the Shattered Plains so perhaps she'll hand it off to Renarin. If that happens on Dalinar's behalf, then the second half of the oath is fulfilled.

Plus, then Renarin can equal Sadeas in battle hardware. The Renarin -> Sadeas smackdown was foreshadowed a bit by Dalanar when he talks to Renarin about starting up his sword training again:

He smiled. "To be honest, I'd do it simply for the joy of seeing Sadeas's face when you become a full Shardbearer. Beyond that, if your strength is made equal to others, I expect that your natural skill will make you shine." Renarin smiled. Shardplate wouldn't solve everything, but Renarin would have his chance.

p. 282 hardback

Or either Jasnah or Shallan could just Soulcast that little blood weakness away. One way or another, I think Renarin's story is going to get more exciting in the future.

Edited July 10, 2012 by parvoneh

[Uduak]

I don't really see Shallan learning how to use a blade because she wants to study and at least for now she see her shardblade as a curse. And i know Renarin is happy because with help of the plate or the possible help of Soulcast he can overcome his blood weakness and be ready to BATTLE! MOAR! But there were some hint in the book about him liking doing something but he didn't admit it( I don't remember what was it, maybe something about the Ardents) so he could decide that his Vocation is not the warrior. Supported from the fact that he doesn't really match up.

(pardon me for the English Errors if there were any)