Beavs007 he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 Trying to think about all the different magic systems in Cosmere. There is obviously a coherent set of rules that govern them on their respective worlds. Do the various magic systems have similar elements at their core? If there is, what do those similarities suggest about the ORIGINAL magic of the Cosmere, before the splintering of the shards? What can we surmise about the original magic of Cosmere from what has been revealed this far? Being a newbie here, I am not sure what tags I should search to find any posts that might discuss this? Any help would be most appreciated! 1
Inky Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 There is no "original" cosmere magic. We know of at least three existing magic systems pre-shattering (Yolish Lightweaving, the atom-splitting thing, Aethers) 2
Quantus he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 56 minutes ago, Inky said: There is no "original" cosmere magic. We know of at least three existing magic systems pre-shattering (Yolish Lightweaving, the atom-splitting thing, Aethers) Atom-splitting thing?
Mailnaise she/her Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 29 minutes ago, Quantus said: Atom-splitting thing? I was just wondering the same thing. 4 hours ago, Beavs007 said: There is obviously a coherent set of rules that govern them on their respective worlds. Do the various magic systems have similar elements at their core? If there is, what do those similarities suggest about the ORIGINAL magic of the Cosmere, before the splintering of the shards? What can we surmise about the original magic of Cosmere from what has been revealed this far? It is my understanding that a version of most magic systems we know now were present pre-shattering, but all were at least a little different, ex. Yolish Lightweaving vs. Lightweaving. The shattering obviously altered whatever had existed before.
Beavs007 he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Author Posted February 28, 2019 @Inky Thanks for your reply. I am new here, so please forgive me if I commit and faux pas. Feel free to call me out on them. I will try to look up some of these. In the meanwhile, are you willing to help direct me to any resources where I could learn more?
Quantus he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Beavs007 said: @Inky Thanks for your reply. I am new here, so please forgive me if I commit and faux pas. Feel free to call me out on them. I will try to look up some of these. In the meanwhile, are you willing to help direct me to any resources where I could learn more? No worries. The Coppermind link at the top of hte page is the best place to get started, it's a wiki compilation of what we know (and some of what we suspect). After that, there is the Arcanum link which is a glorious rabbit-hole of WoB's ("Word of Brandon") that include quotes from Q&A's, lots of little tidbits, clarifications, and other obscure information. 1
Beavs007 he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Author Posted February 28, 2019 I cannot find Liar of Partinel anywhere!!! Was it released at any point, the rough draft?
Beavs007 he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Author Posted February 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Quantus said: No worries. The Coppermind link at the top of hte page is the best place to get started, it's a wiki compilation of what we know (and some of what we suspect). After that, there is the Arcanum link which is a glorious rabbit-hole of WoB's ("Word of Brandon") that include quotes from Q&A's, lots of little tidbits, clarifications, and other obscure information. Thanks! Where can I find what the rankings mean? Looking, but can't find it.
Inky Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 @Quantus @Mailnaise https://wob.coppermind.net/events/122/#e3308 3
Mailnaise she/her Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Inky said: @Quantus @Mailnaise https://wob.coppermind.net/events/122/#e3308 Oh cool!
Mailnaise she/her Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Beavs007 said: Thanks! Where can I find what the rankings mean? Looking, but can't find it. Like the rankings under our names? As you get upvotes you go up in ranks. The names are just titles and things from all of Brandon's books. ex. I have about 170, I'm an Oldblood. 1
King's Twit he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 51 minutes ago, Inky said: @Quantus @Mailnaise https://wob.coppermind.net/events/122/#e3308 That does sound neat, but from his phrasing it sounds like this magic system will not be in the published Cosmere canon. Unless he replaces it with something more like the division surge.
Inky Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 Quote Brandon Sanderson I have done an atom splitting magic originally in Dragonsteel. And wooow it was overpowered. So really, this is fiddling... You'll see what it does when I use it, but we'll not be splitting atoms. We're not creating nuclear reactio... or fission, so. Sounds like we'll be seeing it eventually
Scion of the Mists Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Beavs007 said: I cannot find Liar of Partinel anywhere!!! Was it released at any point, the rough draft? You can find links to all of Brandon's unpublished works here: 1 hour ago, Beavs007 said: Thanks! Where can I find what the rankings mean? Looking, but can't find it. You can find an exhaustive list of all the rankings here: With respect to pre-Shardic magic systems, in addition to the Yolish ones, we know that the Surges have always existed on Roshar. The Aethers are likely to be post-Shattering (i.e. associated with a Shard) whenever he gets around to writing them. Edited February 28, 2019 by Scion of the Mists 3
Beavs007 he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Author Posted February 28, 2019 Thank you @Scion of the Mists !
Jetter he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Inky said: Sounds like we'll be seeing it eventually I read that as Brandon stating that we'll see what Division does when he writes about it. That was what the original questioner was asking about, if the surge of Division can split an atom. Brandon stated that Division will not be splitting an atom and we'll see more about what it does when he writes it. 1
+Child of Hodor Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) The Mistborn magics wouldn't have existed because Scadrial didn't exist. Rosharan system did and I think we know more about that magic system than any other that would have been around. Rosharan has the 10 surges which are tied to 10 fundamental forces in the Universe. Currently, people who access it through Honor's investiture (Stormlight) use them in terms of bonds, because that's Honor's thing. For instance, if you want to go up to create a lash or bond between yourself and the sky. If these 10 fundamental forces were accessed through another Shard it would function differently. Like using Odium's investiture "voidbinding" would not work identically to the surges, but would still impact gravity, light etc. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117/#e1640 I would think the 10 fundamental forces were around, but accessing them through Adonalsium's investiture, if that was even possible, would be different in the way you interact or apply them. They can still mess with gravity, but they wouldn't be lashing. This may be part of the reason Roshar Lightweaving is different from Yolen and why, with Adonalsium shattered Hoid's lightweaving, was "not fully functional" before he got himself a spren. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/367/#e11587 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360/#e10852 Not sure if humans were on Ashyn at this point or not. Singers and non-Yolen humans existed before the shattering so it's possible. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/188/#e3922 Humans would be the ones using this type of magic. Singers didn't really until the Fused as far as we know. Ancient Singers seem more inclined to use some sort of magic involving the Rhythms which are a Cosmere wide phenomenon, that for some reason have a special impact on Roshar. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8272 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/120/#e7414 As was mentioned on a recent Shardcast, I imagine them standing in a huge circle singing and shaping the rock where the Dawncities were built. Could have been pre-shattering. https://www.17thshard.com/news/shardcast/shardcast-history-of-roshar-part-2-r474/ Edited February 28, 2019 by Child of Hodor 2
Beavs007 he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Author Posted February 28, 2019 @Child of Hodor , you rock! Thanks so much!!! 1
Beavs007 he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Author Posted February 28, 2019 @Child of Hodor , you got me thinking. Were the original humans in Cosmere, prior to the shattering of Adonalsium, all located on Ashyn? Or were there other planets where humans existed? Also, what do we know about the causes of the destruction of Ashyn?
+Child of Hodor Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, Beavs007 said: @Child of Hodor , you got me thinking. Were the original humans in Cosmere, prior to the shattering of Adonalsium, all located on Ashyn? Or were there other planets where humans existed? Also, what do we know about the causes of the destruction of Ashyn? I think Yolen was the first but there definitely humans on other planets before Adonalsium shattered according to one of the WoBs I linked. 2
+Invocation Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, Beavs007 said: @Child of Hodor , you got me thinking. Were the original humans in Cosmere, prior to the shattering of Adonalsium, all located on Ashyn? Or were there other planets where humans existed? Also, what do we know about the causes of the destruction of Ashyn? There were other planets on which there were humans before the Shattering, but Yolen had the most sentient life on it of any of them because there are three sentient races there. Ashyn was destroyed because of their magic users harnessing the Surges (in a different way than with a spren-bond, probably), and subsequently wrecking it pretty entirely. Now, it's not all gone (there is still some life there, with a new magic system involving disease), but it's pretty hard to live there. 1
Weltall Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Beavs007 said: @Child of Hodor , you got me thinking. Were the original humans in Cosmere, prior to the shattering of Adonalsium, all located on Ashyn? Or were there other planets where humans existed? Also, what do we know about the causes of the destruction of Ashyn? As mentioned, Yolen is the world where humans first appear. However, we know from things Brandon has said outside the books and from the essays in the Arcanum Unbounded anthology that almost every world in the Cosmere was inhabited before the Shattering. Quote Zach G Dunno if you can answer this now, but if everyone is from Yolen way back when, is there a migration story? Brandon Sanderson Not all humans originated on Yolen, but the first humans were there. Watch the books for myths that hint at more. General Twitter 2016 (Jan. 3, 2016) What we know about Ashyn is pretty limited. We know that it was inhabited by humans before the Shattering and some time afterwards (and after Honor and Cultivation had already arrived and taken up residence on Roshar) a cataclysm ruined the surface of the world and the majority of the surviving population fled to Roshar. We know Odium was involved on Ashyn but we don't know if he was actually worshipped by the people there and we know that the magic operates on the same general principles as Surgebinding but we don't know the details. We do know that the current manifestation of magic on Ashyn (where diseases give you magical powers as a side effect) is not exactly how the magic worked earlier. 1
Quantus he/him Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Child of Hodor said: The Mistborn magics wouldn't have existed because Scadrial didn't exist. Rosharan system did and I think we know more about that magic system than any other that would have been around. This is pure speculation on my part, but given how the fundamentals of Hemalurgy are cosmere-wide, I suspect that there was something similar in the cosmere pre-Scadrial, and that Ati co-opted and reconfigured it in a similar way to how honor co-opted the Surges and the whole Stormlight-in-Gems mechanics. 1
+Child of Hodor Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, Quantus said: This is pure speculation on my part, but given how the fundamentals of Hemalurgy are cosmere-wide, I suspect that there was something similar in the cosmere pre-Scadrial, and that Ati co-opted and reconfigured it in a similar way to how honor co-opted the Surges and the whole Stormlight-in-Gems mechanics. Agreed, that ability didn't come from nowhere.
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