Champion from Kharbranth

[+Child of Hodor]

Quote

"Kharbranth" Odium said. "The city itself, and any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses. This is whom I will spare." - OB Ch. 122

Can Dalinar appoint a champion who was born in Kharbranth and then Odium can't let one of his minions, including any champion he appoints, kill the Kharbranthian? 

My interpretation of their agreement is that Odium can't kill people from Kharbranth and by extension he can't let anyone who works for him do it either. Like, I don't think he's preventing all murders going on in Kharbranth right now, he just has to make sure his people don't kill any of them. 

We don't know that much about Shard contracts, we have seen shards find loopholes in contracts in other series. We know the Fused/Odium found a way to get the Heralds to "bend" the Oathpact. Odium could find a way around it, but it's an idea. 

While I'm thinking of loopholes the "contest of champions" might not have to be to the death. Or even a physical fight, could be decided over that card game the Singers were learning.  

Edited February 25, 2019 by Child of Hodor

[Caevita he/him]

It's a fun concept. At the very least, it's going to lead to some entertaining headcanons where the fate of the planet is decided by a couple of people drawing straws. More seriously, I'm not sure that Honor's champion is something that can just be "appointed." It seems likely that the champion needs to have a strong Connection to Honor (not that it isn't possible for someone like that to exist in Kharbranth, but we haven't met them. Taravangian is better Connected to Preservation, if I remember correctly).

[Quantus he/him]

I suspect that by stepping up to the position of Champion of all Roshar the prospective champion would be forfeiting his Kabranthian "immunity", not unlike how Dalinar had to give up his claim to being an Alethi Highprince when he ascended to the role of High-King. 

[What's a Seawolf?]

As great of an idea as this would be, I think Odium implied such technical shenanigans wouldn't fly.

In OB he says he cares more about the meaning behind the words rather than the words themselves, or something to that affect.  Where Honor (at the end at least) became obsessed with the exact lettering of the oaths, Odium implies the exact words are less important to him.

So if Dalinar and company appointed a champion from Kharbranth, Odium (I think) would just say 'That's nice, but we all know what I meant with that promise.  Your champion is no longer covered by it.'

[Gasper he/him]

Well, according to Mr. Ts deal with Odium, its people from Kharbranth and their families. Do you know who's from Kharbranth? Kaladin's mother. Thats right, the big blue boy scout of Roshar is technically from Kharbranth. Kaladin fits the bill of being the champion of Team Radiant. Strong connection to Honor: Check. Hero complex the size of a Reshi greatshell: Check. Technically protected by Odium's deal: Check. There we have it folks, Kaladin will be our Champion to defeat Odium's Champion. 

[Calderis he/him]

5 hours ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

As great of an idea as this would be, I think Odium implied such technical shenanigans wouldn't fly.

In OB he says he cares more about the meaning behind the words rather than the words themselves, or something to that affect.  Where Honor (at the end at least) became obsessed with the exact lettering of the oaths, Odium implies the exact words are less important to him.

So if Dalinar and company appointed a champion from Kharbranth, Odium (I think) would just say 'That's nice, but we all know what I meant with that promise.  Your champion is no longer covered by it.'

I think that, per some other cosmere works, Odium is a lying liar face and the wording of a binding oath is very important. 

That said, he said he would spare the people of Kharbranth... I don't think that's going to protect anyone actively fighting. 

2 hours ago, Gasper said:

Well, according to Mr. Ts deal with Odium, its people from Kharbranth and their families. Do you know who's from Kharbranth? Kaladin's mother. Thats right, the big blue boy scout of Roshar is technically from Kharbranth. Kaladin fits the bill of being the champion of Team Radiant. Strong connection to Honor: Check. Hero complex the size of a Reshi greatshell: Check. Technically protected by Odium's deal: Check. There we have it folks, Kaladin will be our Champion to defeat Odium's Champion. 

Unfortunately, children aren't covered. 

Quote

Kharbranth,” Odium said. “The city itself, and any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses. This is whom I will spare. Do you agree to this?”

Ayone born in Kharbranth, and their spouse. Children are fair game. 

[Scion of the Mists]

23 hours ago, Caevita said:

Taravangian is better Connected to Preservation, if I remember correctly

Where did you see this?  

[+Child of Hodor]

14 hours ago, Calderis said:

I think that, per some other cosmere works, Odium is a lying liar face and the wording of a binding oath is very important. 

That said, he said he would spare the people of Kharbranth... I don't think that's going to protect anyone actively fighting. 

Unfortunately, children aren't covered. 

Ayone born in Kharbranth, and their spouse. Children are fair game. 

Yeah, I think he'd find a way around it. From other series it seems Shard vessels are bound more to what they think they are agreeing to and not what the other party thinks. 

I also, don't think it would be satisfying dramatically. I just thought it would be funny. 

[Quantus he/him]

For what it's worth, Tanavast certainly thought that Odium would be bound by his given word, according to the Visions that first introduced Dalinar to the idea of a Champion he said that they all were (presumably meaning all Shards).  But then, Tanavast had also apparently forgotten that Humans have a tendency to Change their Minds (especially in the face of Torture) so we may have to take his opinion with a grain of salt, he could be projecting his own perspective/interpretation on things. 

[RShara she/her]

This is how I think it works. There are some Shards that aren't capable of breaking any kind of promise, such as Honor.

For the other Shards, there are certain things that they are bound by, and if they swear by those things, then they are bound by them. However, just "promising" something doesn't fall under that category, and most Shards would be able to break that sort of thing easily.

So Odium saying, "I'll totally save your city. Promise!" really doesn't hold weight with me.

[Karger he/him]

Firstly

15 hours ago, Calderis said:

born into it

has several meanings and we don't actually know where Kaladin was born.  Secondly Odium's currently trying to avoid the contest of champions.  Thirdly I think that the spirit of the contract (which is what Odium claims to be bound to) does imply something like "if I win" so if he looses or could loose I don't think the promise holds. 

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

has several meanings and we don't actually know where Kaladin was born. 

We don't... But seeing as Lirin never went to Kharbranth, I doubt that Kal was born there. 

Lirin trained under a man who trained in Kharbranth. The spheres were supposed to pay for an Education that he only ever achieved secondhand. 

And in that note, I guess I should ask why we think Hessina is from Kharbranth? We know she's not from Hearthstone, but I don't remember anything stating where she is from. 

[RShara she/her]

46 minutes ago, Calderis said:

We don't... But seeing as Lirin never went to Kharbranth, I doubt that Kal was born there. 

Lirin trained under a man who trained in Kharbranth. The spheres were supposed to pay for an Education that he only ever achieved secondhand. 

And in that note, I guess I should ask why we think Hessina is from Kharbranth? We know she's not from Hearthstone, but I don't remember anything stating where she is from. 

Do Kharbranthians speak Alethi with an accent? Hesina doesn't have any accent that we've been told about.

[Quantus he/him]

5 minutes ago, RShara said:

Do Kharbranthians speak Alethi with an accent? Hesina doesn't have any accent that we've been told about.

I dont think that would be very definitive, given how the rest of the town viewed them she'd have had plenty of drive to eliminate any accent that would set her apart. 

[Caevita he/him]

23 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Where did you see this?  

I was referring to one of the diagram excerpts in the WoR epigraphs:

"Q: For what essential must we strive? A: The essential of preservation, to shelter a seed of humanity through the coming storm. Q: What cost must we bear? A: The cost is irrelevant. Mankind must survive. Our burden is that of the species, and all other considerations are but dust by comparison."

[CosmicSieve]

22 hours ago, Calderis said:

We don't... But seeing as Lirin never went to Kharbranth, I doubt that Kal was born there. 

Lirin was a courier who travelled to Kharbranth in his younger days. So he has been there.