IGetLIFTed she/her Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 Ok, so this really has no impact on the story whatsoever, but it’s been on my mind. In Oathbringer, Jasnah reveals that Roshar originally belonged to the listeners, and that humans eventually invaded. Someone (I think it was also Jasnah, though it might’ve been Odium) said that Shinovar was given to the humans as a place where they could live in a similar environment as their native one, where the humans plants could grow and they could thrive. Most obviously moved on from Shinovar, and settled elsewhere. However, if Shinovar was the equivalent of their Rosharan homeland, then why are the Shin short compared to everyone else? Seeing as the Shin would have no obvious catalyst for a significant change in stature (their environment was the same on Roshar as it was before Roshar), the other Rosharans would have had to have grown in order to adapt to their new environment, though the reason they would need to adapt why remains a mystery to me. A second theory is that before leaving their previous planet, the humans had different nationalities, and this carried over when they took over Roshar. This theory seems the most likely, and would explain why the people in the homeland are comparatively short, as they wouldn’t accurately represent the entire pre-Roshar population. Another possibility is that the different countries were founded by a few people, and the different genes carried through generations. This theory makes less sense, however, as the humans probably had to fight the listeners in order to take over Roshar, and that couldn’t be done by a few people, meaning that a few peoples’ similar genes couldn’t control the genes of the whole country.
CrazyRioter she/her Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) Note that Roshar has lighter gravity than Earth (it's about 0.7 G), so that would be a factor that would tend to make Rosharians taller than Earth humans, though that would also apply to Shinovar. Edited January 31, 2019 by CrazyRioter 3
Lunamor she/her Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) Minor spoilers ahead for SA. Another possible theory is the lifestyle of the Shin vs the Alethi. The Alethi have a very violent culture where the strongest man often is the most successful one- many of them are warriors, and Kal mentions someone who made their way up in society simply because they were a very large person who was good at fighting. They are often mentioned as tall and aggressive/warriors in the same sentence (I think). The Shin are very different, leading very peaceful lifestyles where the warriors are the lowliest of people and are not valued nearly as high as they are in the Alethi society. So a possibility could be that maybe natural selection had a factor in it, where smaller people like Cenn (a young, small boy on Kaladin’s squad in the very beginning of the series) and Tien are killed off quickly and the stronger and larger ones survive, while the warrior types in Shin are outcasts from society. This theory may be a bit faulty, however, as not everyone in the rest of Alethkar is a warrior, but it was the only thing that I could come up with at the moment. My first and favorite one was the lighter gravity one, but CrazyRioter got there first. Edited January 31, 2019 by Lunamor 1
IGetLIFTed she/her Posted January 31, 2019 Author Posted January 31, 2019 @CrazyRioterCould there have been some kind of permanent alteration to gravity on Shinovar? This seems highly unlikely, though. That would mean that there is someone or something powering a constant use of the gravitation surge, and that would require a lot of Stormlight, which the Shin may not even get as they live in a place the storms don’t really reach. This gravity theory could be it, but like you said, the Shin should have gotten taller as well. 1
Subvisual Haze Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 I agree that gravity is likely playing a part. I think the Stormlight itself may be playing a subtle part. We're told that plants can grow in the dark if illuminated by Stormlight, perhaps the near constant exposure to Stormlight is having subtle effects on human health and growth? Perhaps the fact that Roshar is a high oxygen environment also plays a part? 1
+Invocation Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 Roshar is the Texas of the cosmere: everything is larger there. Admittedly, though, this is more than just an urban legend/American joke this time, aided by the growth benefits of Stormlight, the lesser gravity, the oxygen content being higher, and maybe some tinkering by Adonalsium.
IGetLIFTed she/her Posted January 31, 2019 Author Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Subvisual Haze said: I agree that gravity is likely playing a part. I think the Stormlight itself may be playing a subtle part. We're told that plants can grow in the dark if illuminated by Stormlight, perhaps the near constant exposure to Stormlight is having subtle effects on human health and growth? Perhaps the fact that Roshar is a high oxygen environment also plays a part? That could be it. I think the hardest thing to figure out is why the Shin aren’t changing as well. There would have to be some kind of separation to make the environment on Shinovar fundamentally different than that of the rest of Roshar. Depending on whether or not the Shin have Stormlight, though, could explain it.
CrazyRioter she/her Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 We have WoB that Rosharians are more resistant to disease than most other people as a result of all the Investiture floating around (widespread disease outbreaks are rare, which is why the disease spread by the worldhoppers in the Purelake was so notable even though it was basically just a cold.) We don't really know what other effects this might have.
Kon-Tiki he/him Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 Shallan says she's 5'6" and calls it a good height. For reference, the average American woman is 5'4". We have no reason to believe that Rosharan inches are different than Earth inches. In fact, our understanding of size in Roshar depends on their measurements being converted to measurements we understand. I think the Alethi are just unusually tall as a people and not Rosharans generally.
CrazyRioter she/her Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 Actually, a Rosharian foot is larger than standard though we don't know how much larger, which makes figuring out how tall our characters actually are hard. Anyway Shallan is taller than 5'6. 1
Subvisual Haze Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 11 hours ago, IGetLIFTed said: That could be it. I think the hardest thing to figure out is why the Shin aren’t changing as well. There would have to be some kind of separation to make the environment on Shinovar fundamentally different than that of the rest of Roshar. Depending on whether or not the Shin have Stormlight, though, could explain it. It is remarked that the Alethi are particularly tall even relative to other Rosharans. So there seems to be a height gradient east to west. It's likely something to do with the Highstorms then, the Highstorms slowly lose power as they pass east to west and have very little effect on Shinovar. !!!! What if this is the same phenomena behind Lift's short height? She probably asked in some vague way not to change (referring to her age/height) and somehow her Boon resulted in her metabolizing investiture directly out of food but conversely not using stormlight at all. The "immunity" to stormlight is stunting her growth relative to everyone else on Roshar? 4
IGetLIFTed she/her Posted February 1, 2019 Author Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said: !!!! What if this is the same phenomena behind Lift's short height? She probably asked in some vague way not to change (referring to her age/height) and somehow her Boon resulted in her metabolizing investiture directly out of food but conversely not using stormlight at all. The "immunity" to stormlight is stunting her growth relative to everyone else on Roshar? Maybe? I’ve always wondered if Lift can still consume Stormlight, or only get investiture from food. Even if she can't use Stormlight for Radiant stuff, though, she's still exposed to it, though if she truly is immune, this theory could make sense. Maybe something like this happened to the Shin, where the humans were given immunity to the small amounts of Stormlight from the highstorms, but the amount of Stormight outside of Shinovar vastly overpowered the partial immunity granted, affecting the height of people? I feel like that's grasping at straws. 19 hours ago, Kon-Tiki said: I think the Alethi are just unusually tall as a people and not Rosharans generally. The Alethi are definitely taller than most Rosharans, but I think most people on Roshar are still taller than the average human. Kaladin's a bit shorter than Rock, who is seven feet tall. Kaladin is tall even among the Alethi, but seven feet is ridiculous, especially if a Rosharan foot is longer than a foot on Earth. To us normal humans, seven feet isn't tall; it massive. I think that for Rosharans to view the Alethi as merely tall when they're approaching seven feet, all Rosharans would have to have a skewed perspective by being taller themselves. Edited February 1, 2019 by IGetLIFTed
CrazyRioter she/her Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, IGetLIFTed said: Maybe? Iv'e always wondered if Lift can still consume Stormlight, or only get investiture from food. Even if she can't use Stormlight for Radiant stuff, though, she's still exposed to it, though if she truly is immune, this theory could make sense. Maybe something like this happened to the Shin, where the humans were given immunity to the small amounts of Stormlight from the highstorms, but the amount of Stormight outside of Shinovar vastly overpowered the partial immunity granted, affecting the height of people? I feel like that's grasping at straws. Lift is confirmed not to be able to use Stormlight from spheres for Surgebinding for the record.
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said: Lift is confirmed not to be able to use Stormlight from spheres for Surgebinding for the record. Where? Genuinely interested, not being snarky. @CrazyRioterThanks Edited February 1, 2019 by SwordNimiForPresident
CrazyRioter she/her Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: Where? Genuinely interested, not being snarky. Quote Laryyl (paraphrased) [Can Lift] get Stormlight from spheres like normal or if it's just from food for her. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) She can only get it from food. Laryyl (paraphrased) Which [is it] related to her boon or her curse? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) RAFO. Arcanum Unbounded Fort Collins signing (Nov. 29, 2016)
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 @CrazyRioter Brandon's a big liar. She can get it from Dalinar too
+Invocation Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 23 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: @CrazyRioter Brandon's a big liar. She can get it from Dalinar too I think, under those circumstances, she was eating the Investiture Dalinar was shedding, so she's still eating and converting, she just happens to have had a meal of almost pure Stormlight.
RShara she/her Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: @CrazyRioter Brandon's a big liar. She can get it from Dalinar too She couldn't get it from Dalinar when he opened the perp. She asks him where she can find some food just afterward.
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 7 hours ago, RShara said: She couldn't get it from Dalinar when he opened the perp. She asks him where she can find some food just afterward. I reread just now. You are correct.
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