If the Evil is THE ultimate evil of all...

[Ripheus23]

"It's not just about you. It's about all of them." Honor, Tanavast, says something like that while showing Dalinar a vision of the stars going out (IIRC, anyway). This makes it seem like Rayse, or at least the Shard of Odium, might be the enduring antagonist of the Cosmere saga, or the widest-scope villain, or however you want to put it. I mean, unless there's something worse than the Cosmere or the universe being destroyed by Rayse or whatever...? Or maybe Rayse/Odium can't himself do that, but he can set in motion a series of disasters that will lead to the death of the sky?

Honor left behind a Cognitive Shadow in his Light-storm. Let's suppose Rayse is killed and does the same thing, in the Everstorm. Now, I think Sanderson, like Stephen R. Donaldson before him* (and a few others, maybe), has an incredible knack for solving the literary algebra of his climactic scenes. The twist-ending, the big reveal, acceptable deus ex machina (literally), etc. Maybe this is presumptuous of me, but my feeling about the Rayse arc overall, is that it would be perfect poetic justice if he were made to take up another Shard, one whose Intent warped him so that he could no longer express himself as the god-of-evil that he has become. So, I'm pretty sure that's gonna happen, maybe at the end of SA5 I suspect. BUT, the Cognitive-Shadow situation also strikes me as a very fitting image of how to keep Rayse going, given the established rules of the game (so to speak), so, IDK. So, maybe that's what happens at the end of SA5, and 6-10 are spent dealing with the Everstormfather

Or, the Everstormfather is the outcome of Book 10 and this tries to carry out the remainder of Rayse's plan in the future.

Anyway, let's waive Rayse or even his occurrent Shard from consideration. Let's say...

OK, so it struck me right off the bat that "Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell" was an eerie title for a Sanderson work, one immensely suggestive of thematic value. Later, knowing that the dire peril of the narrative is called the Evil, I was subconsciously struck by another note in the same song (forgive the mutilated metaphor) which revolved around the haunting(!) question, "Why do they use 'the' in the title like that?"

Like, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and various translations of the Lord's Prayer, there is reference to the Evil One, in The Wheel of Time there's the Dark One, and... Well, it just occurred to me, there's another interesting use of a strikingly similar word (under its definition), in Plato: his references to the Form of the Good. Now, I don't know if there's actually an equivalent of the word "the" in (ancient) Greek, since if I remember my New Testament studies aright, one of the problems in translating some passages as direct references to Christ as God, turns on the fact that the Trinitarian gloss goes through necessarily only if we translate those passages as implicitly inclusive of the definite article (the word "the").

But anyway, the oddity, here, got me to thinking: what if the Evil of Threnody, is really the Evil, period, like the self-conscious Spiritweb of the concept of evil itself? Supposing there might be such a thing, after all (if there was somewhere once a sort of "evilspren" that was self-aware enough and got a Spiritweb, or whatever?). And, moreover, as such, what if the Evil is the final evil of the Cosmere mythos as a whole (regardless of whether defeating an evil being is the final narrative problem of the saga)? There's got to be something important about Nazh working with Khriss and being from Threnody, or the Ire having protocol or whatever for dealing with Shades, or the Lovecraftian vibe of the whole setting (think of the Deep/est Ones (I don't recall their exact name), which if nothing else are reminiscent of the like-named things in the Cthulhu mythos).

So, here's another twist of a way to have Rayse endure as the antagonist across the whole saga, into the depths of its stars. Let it be that when Rayse hurt Uli Da, his action led to the emergence of the Evil in the Threnodite system, and that this Evil, if unchecked, will be the thing that eats the stars after the Rosharan apocalypse.

*In book 5 of the Covenant series (book 2 of the second trilogy), there's an eerie throwaway reference to "the shadow on the heart of the Earth," a danger mentioned in passing by the fairy-archangel beings who the POV characters meet on a quest to save the world from something else. It's made clear enough that this is not supposed to be the Despiser, the very god of desecration himself, who is working to unmake the cosmos and kill the Creator. No, we don't even get an answer in book 6 and it wouldn't be until decades after book 6's initial release that a book would be published explaining the point. Now in that book, entities known as the Insequent are introduced by name (they've shown up, unidentified, in earlier sections), and compared to, or mistaken for, the meaning of the "shadow." Eventually we are told that the Insequent, whose power rivals that of the fairy-archangels, derive their power from emulation of the wild magic wielded by the POV characters and born from within their (the POV characters') spiritual natures. So, what is the "shadow"? It's not some Bigger Bad who maldeus ex machina into the tale, or a runaway side-effect of his ill will, or any such thing: no, it's the POV characters, who come from a different sphere of possible reality and whose essence, therefore, challenges and overshadows that of the Elohim (that's what the fairy-archangels say they are, by the way). This is the perfect solution to the identification problem, the only semantics Donaldson could have assigned to that enigma-phrase that would fit the theme of the story, like the right chord timed against and together with another in a song. [The Elohim are not throwaway characters themselves, to be sure; their motives and abilities are a recurring factor in the ordeal of the protagonists, and one of them plays a pivotal role in the dual climax of book 6 (imagine the climaxes of Warbreaker, Elantris, and The Hero of Ages combined, I kid you not!).]

Edited January 20, 2019 by Ripheus23

[Elend Venture]

Thats some deep stuff rifght there.I originally thoight, having until recentley, only read the stormlight archives, that the inhabitants of Roshar and more powerful spren might splinter Odium. Now I have just read the first era of Mistborn books, which makes me wonder somthing else that is kind of connected: In which era do the Stormlight Archives take place? If they take place during Mistborn Era one, than we know that the Evil (if that last theory is correct) did not destroy the universe because Era 2 happens 300 years later. If it takes place during Era 2 then really anything could happen. Also, unless Hoid is immortal or a time traveller, the Stormlight Archives have to be set in era 1. I really don't know much else because I have only rad those six Sanderson books but that is my idea. I am fine with spoilers.

Edited January 20, 2019 by ElendVenture

[old man moomba]

I feel like Nightblood could have some importance to "The Evil" as its Command is to literally "destroy evil". (Although it does seem a bit to on the nose)

2 minutes ago, ElendVenture said:

Thats some deep stuff rifght there.I originally thoight, having until recentley, only read the stormlight archives, that the inhabitants of Roshar and more powerful spren might splinter Odium. Now I have jist read the first era of Mistborn books, which makes me wonder somthing else that is kind of connected: In which era do the Stormlight Archives take place? If they take place during Mistborn Era one, than we know that the Evil (if that last theory is correct) did not destroy the universe because Era 2 happens 300 years later. If it takes place during Era 2 then really anything could happen. Also, unless Hoid is immortal or a time traveller, the Stormlight Archives have to be set in era 1. I really don't know much else because I have only rad those six Sanderson books but that is my idea. I am fine with spoilers.

Hoid is immortal, yes. His immortality has something to do with the weapon that caused the Shattering. 

[Elend Venture]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Dapper said:

I feel like Nightblood could have some importance to "The Evil" as its Command is to literally "destroy evil". (Although it does seem a bit to on the nose)

Hoid is immortal, yes. His immortality has something to do with the weapon that caused the Shattering. 

Maybe they can destroy the Evil with Nightblood then.

Thanks. So really it could be any time on Roshar. So I guess Hoid was present at the shattering?

 

[+Invocation]

40 minutes ago, ElendVenture said:

Thats some deep stuff rifght there.I originally thoight, having until recentley, only read the stormlight archives, that the inhabitants of Roshar and more powerful spren might splinter Odium. Now I have just read the first era of Mistborn books, which makes me wonder somthing else that is kind of connected: In which era do the Stormlight Archives take place? If they take place during Mistborn Era one, than we know that the Evil (if that last theory is correct) did not destroy the universe because Era 2 happens 300 years later. If it takes place during Era 2 then really anything could happen. Also, unless Hoid is immortal or a time traveller, the Stormlight Archives have to be set in era 1. I really don't know much else because I have only rad those six Sanderson books but that is my idea. I am fine with spoilers.

Mistborn Era 1 is before Stormlight. If you want full details, message me and I'll give you the verifiable reason(s) why, but I'm not gonna put it down where anyone can read that hasn't gotten done with Era 1 or Way of Kings yet.

Hoid is immortal, though. He's the second-oldest being in the cosmere, the first being a dragon (and that list includes the Shards)

[Jace21]

On 1/20/2019 at 3:17 PM, Dr. Dapper said:

Hoid is immortal, yes. His immortality has something to do with the weapon that caused the Shattering. 

Can you provide a source for this? To the best of my knowledge we have no idea how Hoid got his immortality.

[+Invocation]

2 minutes ago, Jace21 said:

Can you provide a source for this? To the best of my knowledge we have no idea how Hoid got his immortality.

Quote

Valhalla [PENDING REVIEW]

So, you talked about a weapon made by the enemies of Adonalsium, and you said it doesn't exist in it's original form. Do any remnants of it still exist in the Physical Realm?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

Valhalla [PENDING REVIEW]

Have we seen any of those remnants on-screen?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

*pause* RAFO.

In current continuity (and people would know this), Hoid's immortality comes from this. People who have read Dragonsteel know that.

Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018)

 

[Jace21]

Interesting, especially since I have read Dragonsteel.

I can guess what he's alluding too but it's hardly something obvious, the fact the cause of Hoid's immortality is linked to the weapon (in current continuity) that shattered Adonalsium is huge. I'm even more desperate for Dragonsteel to be rewritten and released now.

Thanks for that though, it gives me plenty to think about.

[Elend Venture]

On 1/22/2019 at 5:04 PM, Jace21 said:

Interesting, especially since I have read Dragonsteel.

I can guess what he's alluding too but it's hardly something obvious, the fact the cause of Hoid's immortality is linked to the weapon (in current continuity) that shattered Adonalsium is huge. I'm even more desperate for Dragonsteel to be rewritten and released now.

Thanks for that though, it gives me plenty to think about.

Could the shattering weapon have anything to do with nightblood?

[Ripheus23]

Re: my argument in the OP, I have come up with a counterargument. I think a recent WoB said that the Threnody novel is in jeopardy, like it might never be written. If the Evil was going to end up being the Big Bad of the Cosmere, it seems like we'd get a novel about it for sure... so unless the WoB is a reverse-clue, it indicates that the Evil is not that important of a phenomenon.

[Jace21]

On 1/23/2019 at 11:37 PM, ElendVenture said:

Could the shattering weapon have anything to do with nightblood?

Unfortunately we are not allowed to discuss Dragonsteel on the forums and it will be so heavily reworked before it is published that it's of limited use anyway.

16 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

Re: my argument in the OP, I have come up with a counterargument. I think a recent WoB said that the Threnody novel is in jeopardy, like it might never be written. If the Evil was going to end up being the Big Bad of the Cosmere, it seems like we'd get a novel about it for sure... so unless the WoB is a reverse-clue, it indicates that the Evil is not that important of a phenomenon.

I agree, I doubt the evil is that important. It could be that it doesn't need a novel because it has been upgraded to the big bad, but I doubt it same as you.

[Kuram]

On 1/20/2019 at 5:13 PM, ElendVenture said:

Thats some deep stuff rifght there.I originally thoight, having until recentley, only read the stormlight archives, that the inhabitants of Roshar and more powerful spren might splinter Odium. Now I have just read the first era of Mistborn books, which makes me wonder somthing else that is kind of connected: In which era do the Stormlight Archives take place? If they take place during Mistborn Era one, than we know that the Evil (if that last theory is correct) did not destroy the universe because Era 2 happens 300 years later. If it takes place during Era 2 then really anything could happen. Also, unless Hoid is immortal or a time traveller, the Stormlight Archives have to be set in era 1. I really don't know much else because I have only rad those six Sanderson books but that is my idea. I am fine with spoilers.

Brandon has said era 2 happens sometime within the timeskip between stormlight book 5 and 6 (which is meant to be something between 10-30 years I think), which would place era one roughly 300 years before the first stormlight book if I got that right.