Warden of Storms he/him Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 So, if odium killed honor by killing his purposes, how did he kill ambition, dominion and devotion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ripheus23 Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Well, if not every Shard has Purposes, then not by doing something to their Purposes. Whatever he did to Aona and Skai was different, on some level or at some stage, from what he did to Ambition, and what he did to Ambition was different from what he did to Honor (at least, it seems like Honor didn't have a chance to run away). Remember, the only scene we've been given, in the entire Cosmere saga to date, of one Shard destroying another, is the scene where Vin destroys Ruin. So the mechanics of inter-Shardic violence are very obscure for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 RShara she/her Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 We don't really know how Splintering works, so there's no way to know how he killed Honor, Ambition, or Dominion and Devotion. Ripheus is right that what he did to D&D was different than what he did with the rest, since he somehow shoved them into the Cognitive Realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Quantus he/him Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 So far as I can tell he's done it differently each time, learning as he goes, though we dont actually know any specifics. In the case of Ambition they had what sounds like a more direct knock-down fight that spanned multiple systems and/or planets. That was at least his third kill, as he got to Dominion&Devotion first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Weltall Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Welcome to the Shard! To add to what Ripheus23 and RShara have said, Odium killed Aona and Skai first and he shoved the power of Devotion and Dominion into the Cognitive Realm because he had a particular goal in mind (keeping anyone else from being able to easily take up the Shards) but he didn't know the side effects it would have and didn't have any opportunities to test it out beforehand. What he did with Ambition and Honor was different due to his having more experience and thus a better idea of how to accomplish his goals, and the situations with those two Shards differ from each other as well in various ways. 35 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said: (at least, it seems like Honor didn't have a chance to run away). At the point that Odium showed up in the Rosharan System, Honor and Cultivation had already Invested in Roshar so they'd have the same problem leaving the system that Odium does right now: Lots of the Shard's power is 'in the world' and can't be easily withdrawn so Honor would either have needed to take steps to deal with that or he'd have to leave it behind. So, less that he didn't have a chance to run away and more that he wasn't willing to make the sacrifices that running would have demanded, vis a vis abandoning the planet (and possibly Cultivation if she didn't join him) to Odium or sacrificing a hefty chunk of his power. Given what Honor (apparently) represents it might also have been flat-out impossible for him to flee even if he really really wanted to, since Shards are all bound by their oaths and he's extra-bound by his specific intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Smye Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Ripheus23 said: Well, if not every Shard has Purposes, then not by doing something to their Purposes. Whatever he did to Aona and Skai was different, on some level or at some stage, from what he did to Ambition, and what he did to Ambition was different from what he did to Honor (at least, it seems like Honor didn't have a chance to run away). Remember, the only scene we've been given, in the entire Cosmere saga to date, of one Shard destroying another, is the scene where Vin destroys Ruin. So the mechanics of inter-Shardic violence are very obscure for us. It's also worth noting that this was Vin killing Ati, rather than a true shattering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Warden of Storms he/him Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 I thought ambition was killed first, I mean naturally ambition would want to be the strongest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 I think I am here. he/him Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Odium went after Ambition first, but after he couldn’t find them, he went after Devotion and Dominion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Weltall Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Warden of Storms said: I thought ambition was killed first, I mean naturally ambition would want to be the strongest Brandon has clarified what Khriss said in Arcanum Unbounded. He targeted Ambition first because he saw her as the biggest threat but he didn't find her until after killing D&D. Quote Brandon Sanderson He went after Ambition first, but didn't find Ambition until after going after Devotion and Dominion. But Ambition was number one on his hit list. Argent Was it because of the Shard or because of the Vessel? Like did he hate the person? Brandon Sanderson In this case it was the Shard, primarily, that drove him-- Argent Oh, he was maybe afraid the Shard would grow too powerful and take over-- Brandon Sanderson He was afraid that this Shard that would rival him. And so he's like "This one is number one on the hit list. We're taking down Ambition.". source Edited January 7, 2019 by Weltall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 +robardin he/him Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 "We're" taking down Ambition? And he exclaims, "No! We killed you!" when Dalinar Ascends? Who's this "we"? Is that Odium using the Royal We? But he never does that when talking to Taravangian later, or to Dalinar earlier, or when addressing his Fused minions at Thaylen Fields. It feels like Autonomy is giving Odium a boost to be able to splinter other Shards, as all of them are naturally exactly equal in raw power to each other, no? And for Vin as Preservation to destroy Ati as Ruin, the price tag came with her own destruction as a Vessel as well. Maybe that scepter he's always waving around represents that boost. As to why Autonomy would do such a thing: perhaps the ultimate fulfillment of "Autonomy" as an Intent would be to free all people from divine (Shardic) control or influence, leaving only Splinters like AonDor on Sel or the Stormfather on Roshar. So he/she's leveraging Odium as a tool of destruction, with some longer term plan for suppressing or eliminating him when he's done with his hatchet jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 RShara she/her Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 28 minutes ago, robardin said: "We're" taking down Ambition? And he exclaims, "No! We killed you!" when Dalinar Ascends? Who's this "we"? Is that Odium using the Royal We? But he never does that when talking to Taravangian later, or to Dalinar earlier, or when addressing his Fused minions at Thaylen Fields. It feels like Autonomy is giving Odium a boost to be able to splinter other Shards, as all of them are naturally exactly equal in raw power to each other, no? And for Vin as Preservation to destroy Ati as Ruin, the price tag came with her own destruction as a Vessel as well. Maybe that scepter he's always waving around represents that boost. As to why Autonomy would do such a thing: perhaps the ultimate fulfillment of "Autonomy" as an Intent would be to free all people from divine (Shardic) control or influence, leaving only Splinters like AonDor on Sel or the Stormfather on Roshar. So he/she's leveraging Odium as a tool of destruction, with some longer term plan for suppressing or eliminating him when he's done with his hatchet jobs. It seems like this should probably go into its own thread, in the Cosmere or SA forums, rather than a Q&A thread? The format of the Q&A threads isn't the best for theory discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 +robardin he/him Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, RShara said: It seems like this should probably go into its own thread, in the Cosmere or SA forums, rather than a Q&A thread? The format of the Q&A threads isn't the best for theory discussion Right-o! -- it just occurred to me while reading this one, is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 RShara she/her Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, robardin said: Right-o! -- it just occurred to me while reading this one, is all There're a couple other threads about it floating around, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question
Warden of Storms he/him
So, if odium killed honor by killing his purposes, how did he kill ambition, dominion and devotion?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
12 answers to this question
Recommended Posts