Lets talk about Team Nalthis

[Scion of the Mists]

17 hours ago, TequilaJack said:

Vasher was one if the 5 scholars....but how did Vivenna worldhop? Presume Vasher bought her along, but how did the trio separate? Did he give it to Vivenna who lost it and subsequently searching for it? 

I'm pretty sure that Vasher and Vivenna came separately.  Vasher's been on Roshar for a couple decades, while Vivenna's still fairly new.  

As for how she got to Roshar, she came through the Cognitive Realm.  She mentions something along the lines of "I hate this place" when they're Transported to Shadesmar.  There's actually Cognitive Realm caravans between Nalthis and Roshar.  

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I feel like it was rather clear that Vivenna came to Roshar specifically to find Vasher and Nightblood. So she arrived after them. Apparently a long time after, given that Vasher has been around Roshar for 10+ years.

[Tesh Any pronouns]

First off, this is my first post on the forums since MAY. 

Anyways.

Are you honestly going to make me choose? Those three are some of my favorite Cosmere characters. 

But I'm really excited to learn how Vivenna and Vasher got seperated, and how they lost Nightblood, and then how Nale got him, and why he decided to give him to Szeth... And where else has Vivenna been looking for Nightblood?

25 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I feel like it was rather clear that Vivenna came to Roshar specifically to find Vasher and Nightblood. So she arrived after them. Apparently a long time after, given that Vasher has been around Roshar for 10+ years.

In Oathbringer, it only specifically mentions her wanting to find Nightblood, but i can't remember wether there were any suggestions of her wanting to find Vasher. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Tesh

[Ashaman_Wade he/him]

I've been thinking a lot about this and I think there is room for both Szeth and Vasher to become more than their pasts together in the story. Both are in service to others because of perceived evil in their past with a sword that can't percieve that evil being a companion to both. Nale showed Szeth a path out of darkness and it led to Dalinar.

Now as Szeth overcomes his past he will bring others with him as we have seen the other radiant leaders do. I thought it could be the remaining Sadeas troops that end up being put under him to learn law and order. However, it could just be Vasher that he saves. I mean if Hoid got a spren, why couldn't Vasher? 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Ashaman_Wade
Words

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

35 minutes ago, Tesh said:

In Oathbringer, it only specifically mentions her wanting to find Nightblood, but i can't remember wether there were any suggestions of her wanting to find Vasher. 

Pretty sure she hinted at a bounty on Vasher. I’ll see if I can find it. 

Also, I think either Vivenna or Vasher will bond a spren. Or, I hope anyway. It would be awesome to see them join the ranks of the KR. 

[Scion of the Mists]

1 hour ago, Tesh said:

In Oathbringer, it only specifically mentions her wanting to find Nightblood, but i can't remember wether there were any suggestions of her wanting to find Vasher.

I think she mentions that she's hunting a criminal, or something like that.  

Plus there's this WoB:

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

What happened to Vivenna?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

She's looking for Vasher. Keep your eyes wide open when reading Oathbringer.

source

[Solant he/him]

I feel like there was a line from her to the effect of "the guy that taught you that kata, tell him I'm looking for him". I'll see if I can find it later

[TequilaJack]

6 hours ago, Tesh said:

In Oathbringer, it only specifically mentions her wanting to find Nightblood, but i can't remember wether there were any suggestions of her wanting to find Vasher. 

In the scene where Azure, Adolin and Kaladin do the Kata together in shaedsmar, she tells something that "Warn him that I'm looking for him" in reference to Zahel. 

A bit later she says she's hunting a criminal and later says her bounty is a sword. I took that as someone stole Nightblood from her and she's looking for him and get it back. 

Edited December 29, 2018 by TequilaJack

[Dalakaar he/him]

13 minutes ago, TequilaJack said:

A bit later she says she's hunting a criminal and later says her bounty is a sword. I took that as someone stole Nightblood from her and she's looking for him and get it back. 

I took that to mean Nightblood was the criminal himself, heh.

[Jace21 he/him]

6 hours ago, Solant said:

I feel like there was a line from her to the effect of "the guy that taught you that kata, tell him I'm looking for him". I'll see if I can find it later

I took this to mean she wasn't looking for Vasher, at least not as her main purpose. If she was, then she discovered Kaladin and Adolin knew him then made no effort to discover his whereabouts from them. Slightly counter-productive.

I think Nightblood is who/what she is after. Criminal or not I think she is willing to leave Vasher be so long as she gets the sword.

[Tesh Any pronouns]

On 12/28/2018 at 11:14 AM, Solant said:

I feel like there was a line from her to the effect of "the guy that taught you that kata, tell him I'm looking for him". I'll see if I can find it later

I remember that now. I think that's almost exactly what it is.

On 12/28/2018 at 10:23 AM, Toaster Retribution said:

Also, I think either Vivenna or Vasher will bond a spren. Or, I hope anyway. It would be awesome to see them join the ranks of the KR. 

I wonder what orders they would be in... We need to learn more about the mind sets of the other orders in order to make a better guess. I'll look into it after i re-read Warbreaker. If I can get around to it.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

6 minutes ago, Tesh said:

 

I wonder what orders they would be in... We need to learn more about the mind sets of the other orders in order to make a better guess. I'll look into it after i re-read Warbreaker. If I can get around to it.

I’ll guess Willshaper or Windrunner for Vivenna and maybe Skybreaker for Vasher. Or Stoneward. That could work as well.

[Tesh Any pronouns]

Just now, Toaster Retribution said:

I’ll guess Willshaper or Windrunner for Vivenna and maybe Skybreaker for Vasher. Or Stoneward. That could work as well.

I can see Willshaper and Stoneward, but not really Windrunner or Skybreaker.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

19 minutes ago, Tesh said:

I can see Willshaper and Stoneward, but not really Windrunner or Skybreaker.

Windrunner is for her leadership skills, and the fact that she obviously wanted to protect her soldiers and normal Alethi folks in the capital.

Vasher as a Skybreaker is a random idea that popped into my head, and might not be very accurate when I’m thinking about it twice. 

But I will stand by Vivenna for Windrunner. 

[Scion of the Mists]

I think it would be pretty tricky to have a Returned/Awakener as a Radiant.  They'd likely figure pretty strongly into the conflict and it would be hard to explain away their "extra" powers and keep Stormlight accessible to the non-Cosmere aware readers.  

[Quantus he/him]

20 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I think it would be pretty tricky to have a Returned/Awakener as a Radiant.  They'd likely figure pretty strongly into the conflict and it would be hard to explain away their "extra" powers and keep Stormlight accessible to the non-Cosmere aware readers.  

If you are speaking Doylistically, I dont think that would be an issue, especially since Nightblood has already taken a prominent place in the narrative.  Warbreaker as a novel was conceived to provide backstory for Nalthis elements that were already present in the proto-stormlight story. 

[Scion of the Mists]

12 minutes ago, Quantus said:

If you are speaking Doylistically, I dont think that would be an issue, especially since Nightblood has already taken a prominent place in the narrative.  Warbreaker as a novel was conceived to provide backstory for Nalthis elements that were already present in the proto-stormlight story. 

Yeah, I get that Nightblood's already there.  I'm actually really interested in what non-Cosmere aware people think of Nightblood/Azure, but none of my friends/family that I've forced to start reading Sanderson have gotten that far yet.  

I still think there's a significant difference between Nightblood (who's very interesting and complicated Realmatically, but can be thought of as Uber-Shardblade) and a whole new magic system that works completely differently (i.e. Awakening) than anything on Roshar.  

You kind of see this from Kaladin's perspective, when he comes across Azure's blade.  He basically thinks of it as a weird Shardblade.  But if he saw her bring inanimate objects to life...

[Quantus he/him]

Just now, Scion of the Mists said:

Yeah, I get that Nightblood's already there.  I'm actually really interested in what non-Cosmere aware people think of Nightblood/Azure, but none of my friends/family that I've forced to start reading Sanderson have gotten that far yet.  

I still think there's a significant difference between Nightblood (who's very interesting and complicated Realmatically, but can be thought of as Uber-Shardblade) and a whole new magic system that works completely differently (i.e. Awakening) than anything on Roshar.  

You kind of see this from Kaladin's perspective, when he comes across Azure's blade.  He basically thinks of it as a weird Shardblade.  But if he saw her bring inanimate objects to life...

For what it's worth my father has only read Stormlight and Brandon's WOT books. He found OB more confusing that most because it introduced so many characters that he didnt understand, Azure being a big one, though he missed Edgedancer which was a lot of the problem too.

Personally I think it's intended to prime the audiences for the increasing interconnectedness of that narrative, which is only going to move closer to center stage as we approach the Dragonsteel and latter era Scadial stories. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Eh. Brandon can just have Vivenna and Vasher blame the Nightwatcher for their peculiar abilities, and for Nightblood for that matter. Or we get a fun exposition scene where Kaladin gets to learn about Nalthis.

[Kon-Tiki he/him]

41 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

You kind of see this from Kaladin's perspective, when he comes across Azure's blade.  He basically thinks of it as a weird Shardblade.

I think "Shardblade" is just Alethi for "magic sword" the way "lighteyes" is Alethi for "nobleman". The way the sword is described makes it sound like it isn't similar to a regular Shardblade physically, and it obviously doesn't have the same effects.

43 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

But if he saw her bring inanimate objects to life...

Adolin kind of did

[Joy she/her]

Vasher is a scholar, and he berates Vivenna in Warbreaker for not thinking things through clearly -- Elsecaller, perhaps? As for Vivenna herself, I have no idea.

I'm definitely excited to see more of Vivenna, though I hope the story is kept accessible to non-cosmere-aware readers. (For what it's worth, I was able to follow along well without having read Warbreaker first. I knew that the stories were connected, I just hadn't read any of them yet, so when I learned they were from another world I thought "Oh, they're from another book" and shrugged it off.)

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 1/6/2019 at 4:58 PM, Joy said:

Vasher is a scholar, and he berates Vivenna in Warbreaker for not thinking things through clearly -- Elsecaller, perhaps? As for Vivenna herself, I have no idea.

Defending her people: Stoneward or Windrunner
Ready to learn and explore: Willshaper