Blightsong Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 I'm doing a reread of Warbreaker right now so I've been shooting a lot of quick ideas for theories off on the Discord and this was the one that i think was the best so i thought I'd do a small write up on it here. As we all know, the Royal Locks are a phenomenon when a Returned has a child and that child is endowed with a piece of a Divine Breath through a process we don't fully know the parameters of. We also know that this process likely could result in a full Divine Breath being endowed from the fact that many Godkings were created through natural birth yet no distinction between them and the ones who were made Godkings after Returning during infancy is ever brought up. With this in mind, read the below WoB: Quote DrogaKrolow Sentient machines, artificial intelligence. Would they be able to use Investiture? Or not? How would that work? Brandon Sanderson So, define "use Investiture". Like, there's a lot of different ways to quote-unquote use Investiture. DrogaKrolow OK, I don't mean the medallions but like if I go and peek into the Spiritual Realm and I look at the machine, do I see Investiture inside it? The Connections to the Shards and so on? Brandon Sanderson Chances are good that you will. But I have to add a big asterisk to that, it's gonna depend on so many factors. But consciousness in the cosmere is directly tied to Investiture. And creating a machine in many ways cosmerelogically is not that different from creating a child. DrogaKrolow Okay... Interesting. Brandon Sanderson Yes. I'll just leave it there. Notice how Brandon specifically ties the manifestation of consciousness to this idea that the creators of a machine would be realmatically similar to its parent. What if this holds true for type 4 Biochromatic Entities, and a factor in why Nightblood is so different (especially from the one we see Vivenna use in OB) is because he was made by a Returned? It would explain this quote and the phenomenon Vivenna refrencest: Quote “They’re of the fifth Heightening,” Vasher said, interrupting her. “But they don’t get there by the number of Breaths, but by the quality. Returned have a single, powerful Breath. One that takes them all the way to the fifth Heightening. It’s a divine Breath, you might say. But their body feeds on Breath, like...” “The sword.” Vasher nodded. “Nightblood only needs it when he’s drawn. Returned feed off their Breath once a week. What do you guys think, is this plausible? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 I do agree it's interesting, and could definitely be a factor... But I still believe that Vivenna's blade was made by Yesteel... So I don't think that's the answer to Nightblood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ark1002 Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 It did say that it isn't that different, but that could mean it counts as creating a sentient mind, and the difference is that it doesn't have the spiritual inheritance from parents. But I like the theory, and it seems plausible. Just pointing out the hole I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Calderis said: I do agree it's interesting, and could definitely be a factor... But I still believe that Vivenna's blade was made by Yesteel... So I don't think that's the answer to Nightblood. Vivenna seems to possess that knowledge herself; there is a big chance it was made by Yesteel but there is also a big chance it wasn't. This could also be explained within the theory as the new blade only possessing a portion of a divine breath while Nightblood inherited a full one, although we dont know much about the mechanics of what decides this. Edit: I do believe Nightblood involved more than this though, as Brandon has hinted that a mixing of other Shard's investiture took place with Nightblood although that is still not more than a theory extrapolated from a purposely vague and up in the air WoB. Edited November 4, 2018 by Blightsong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brgst13 Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 We know a couple of things that inform this discussion: 1. He was made in imitation of a Shardblade. The implication here is that Vasher had been to Roshar. 2. Stormlight will work like Breath in many ways. 3. Stormlight is vastly easier to obtain. 4. Brandon has hinted that there was more than one type of Investiture involved in Nightblood's creation. My suspicion is that Nightblood was created with a mix of Stormlight and Breath. In fact, mathematically, he would almost have to be. There is a limited number of breaths available in the world. Most people are not Drabs. Nightblood required "thousands and thousands" of Breaths. At minimum, 5000 Breaths/year are absorbed by the Court of the Gods. 40,000 more are tied up in Lifeless. Based on the Ars Arcanum, no non-Returned has ever exceeded the Eighth Heightening (and possibly only the God Kings ever reached it). At a certain point, there almost has to be another source of Investiture involved just to make the numbers make sense. It is likely to me that Vivienna's blade was made with less Breaths (technique was refined after the first try) but only Breaths were used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 @Brgst13https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360-legion-release-party/#e10833 Nightblood was not given thousands and thousands of breaths at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 3 hours ago, John203 said: @Brgst13https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360-legion-release-party/#e10833 Nightblood was not given thousands and thousands of breaths at once. That WoB does not say that he wasn't made with thousands of breath.... It only says that Nightblood is getting more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 It is easier to believe he was created with a combination of breath and ruin's investiture and has cannibalized some percent of the investiture he has consumed since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 No WoB has to say he wasn't made with thousands of Breaths. We are explicitly told in Warbreaker he was made with 1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 That's right! Got amounts of breath confused between Nightblood and God-King.So after looking at the coppermind it says God-King had 50,000+ breaths.... How does that work with this WoB? Questioner Is Nightblood a minor Shard? Brandon Sanderson Nightblood is one of the most heavily Invested things in the cosmere that is not a Shard. It seems old God-King is 50 x more powerful... at least at first.... I'm liking this theory more and more! It also means Nightblood must have gotten a LOT of other investiture. (As to above post: just pointing out WoB was not saying what was being stated it said) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 14 hours ago, Steel Inqusitive said: It seems old God-King is 50 x more powerful... at least at first.... I think in Nightblood the Breaths were "melted" together, unified, and factored upward in degree of Investiture, accordingly. Whether being Awoken using 1,000 Breaths is 1/50th of holding 50,000 Breathes, is not necessarily clear (at least I don't remember any account of this question). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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