Flashback Character Identity theory

[MistWit]

I believe Brandon has said that their will be a flashback from each order of nights radiant so from this we can extrapolate.

 

1st set

Kaladin - Windrunner 1

Shalan - Lightweaber 2

Szeth - Skybreaker 3

Eshoni - Willshapers 4 (unconfirmed but speculated willshaper)

Dalanar - Bondsmith 5

 

2nd set (not in this order)

Taln - Stonewards 6

Lift - Edgedancers 7

Jasnah - Elsecallers 8

Renarin - Truthwatchers 9

Chanarach - Dustbringers 10 (unconfirmed but known to be a 2nd herald)

 

Although it is unconfirmed it has been speculated and i agree that Eshoni will be a willshaper leaving only the order of Dustbringers left for the 2nd herald making her Chanarach.This seems even more likely when you consider that we now have 5 male characters and 5 female characters just like the original heralds and how well Willshaper fits Eshoni who was called the Explorer on the back of the book.

 

Could someone link me to the quote where Brandon said there would be a book for each order I couldn't find it.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Inquisitor of Wit

[Argent]

Actually, the "second Herald book" is really really old info, if I recall correctly. 

[Sphinx]

Sugarhouse

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7234-sugarhouse-signing-saturday-mar-29th/

Q:  Are the rest of the books in the Stormlight Archive going to be different colors?

A:  They are, and you can actually match the color to the order of the Knights Radiant.  That's the Windrunners[WoK], that's the symbol of the Windrunners, that's the color. That's the Lightweavers[WoR], and that's the symbol of the Lightweavers, which is the same, and the color.

 

 

I think this is the WoB that people base that on. There may be a more explicit one somewhere.

 

 

As to the Herald thing, I think it comes from here. It's worth noting that the other Herald is referred to as "he" (and has a good chance of being Nalan) and that since this WoB Navani will no longer be having a flashback book, Renarin and Lift will, and other things may have changed as well.

Marc Aplin

Okay, the next question we have—I think this one you might have answered before—but have we met all the main point-of-view characters yet? Or, if not, what percentage are we talking?

Brandon Sanderson

You have met almost all of them. Let me do a count... Let's see. The main characters in the book are—in the series—Kaladin, and Dalinar, Adolin, Jasnah, Shallan, and Navani, whom you all met in this book and most of them had viewpoints. Szeth, Taravangian, and Taln. And one of the other Heralds; I'm not going to tell you who that is. But I think you've met...you have, I'm sure, met that person; I know he's in there. And so, I think you've met them all, basically. Taln is the person who shows up in the epilogue.

source

Edited May 8, 2014 by Sphinx

[Argent]

Which is an obsolete WoB, because (I am pretty sure) he scrapped Navani. Lift, Renarin, and Taln are the three I am 100% sure are confirmed, assuming things don't change. Since we need an Elsecaller, Jasnah will probably hop on the bandwagon too. We still need a Dusbringer here, and if the WoB from above is any indication, we should see Taravangian talking to spren sometime soon (since we, presumably, haven't seen Chana and we have seen all the viewpoint characters of the second arc).

[Aleksiel]

 

 

Q:  Is Jasnah's book going to be one of the backstories?

A:  It is. She's on the back five.  

 source

[GreyPilgrim]

Brandon has since WoR basically changed his mind on every character he ever said would be a flashback character for the Second Arc except for Jasnah. I have a feeling that the second Herald he said would be one will almost certainly not be one. If he doesn't change his mind yet again before the end of the series, I am of the belief that the unknown flashback character will be either Taravangian o Rysn. I lean toward Rysn more because if this character is a Dustbringer, I feel she fits more as one than Taravangian, given that the Divine Attributes of Chana are Brave and Obedient. These are certainly two characteristics we have seen Rysn exhibit fairly strongly, especially Bravery. Taravangian just doesn't fit as well under those.

[maxal]

brav·er·y

ˈbrāv(ə)rē/

noun

noun: bravery

courageous behavior or character.

synonyms: courage, valor, intrepidity, nerve, daring, fearlessness, audacity, boldness, dauntlessness, stoutheartedness, heroism; More

 

As far as I know, Mr T never exhibit these attributes. I therefore do not see him as a Dustbringer nor do I see him as any Radiant as he is, mostly, an evil character willing to murder innocent people just for the shake of his diagram. Even is he has a higher motive it doesn't erase the horrible acts he has committed (starting wars, launching plagues, etc). I believe some people see him as such mainly because he is rumored to have his own book and because most believe each flashback character to be from an order. Dustbringer happen to be the only unknown order.

 

I understand that some order do not mind murders to protect others (Shallan murdering her parents), do not mind murdering their own people while being under the influence of some evil entity (Eshonai), do not mind passion crimes (Adolin murdering Sadeas, Brandon said some orders would be fine with it), but not minding murdering people just to get their last sentences because they might be relevant to some higher diagram? I do not believe it. Mr T has very few redeeming qualities (in my opinion) and if he does redeem himself, I hope it will be to the expense of his life as not as a KR.

 

In my opinion, the only character we have seen that truly embrace the definition of bravery was Adolin. He rushes to save prostitutes in enemy war camp, he is daring on the war field, reckless and he goes into a 4 against 1 duel knowing full well he cannot win. He has never shown fear and he is courageous in most of his actions. Most people think he is not obedient enough and I disagree. Adolin does not agree with Dalinar in WoK, not at all. He voices it quite loudly and yet he does as he is told. He goes into a mission with Sadeas despite thinking they will be betrayed. Now, obeying orders when you are convinced they are right is easy, really easy. Obeying orders when you are dead convinced they are wrong is very hard, especially when you think the person issuing them has gone mad. Obeying orders you strongly despise, you strongly wish were different (wearing uniforms, not drinking, not dueling, etc) is a much much harder thing to do then obeying orders you don't give a damnation about. Adolin obviously has issues with that, but in the end, he does obey, except when he let his anger rules and killed a highprince, but that is another story.

 

I know most people also rule him out because he won't have a book. That may be true, but as I have stated many times, we have no proof each flashback character is from the featured order. So basically, I am in the Adolin is our Dustbringer bandwagon (for better or for worst) and whoever happens to take the last spot probably won't be a Dustbringer or maybe it will be Chana and Adolin will be featured heavily. We never know.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

@ maxel. I too agree that Adolin is going to become a Dustbringer and I cannot wait. Think how awesome he will be with Stormlight at his disposal. Without it ( yes he has Shardplate but that isn't as good as Sormlight in regards to physical enhancements ) he could still manage two skilled full Shardbearers at the same. Whilst in damaged Plate.

[Moogle]

I lean toward Rysn more because if this character is a Dustbringer, I feel she fits more as one than Taravangian, given that the Divine Attributes of Chana are Brave and Obedient. These are certainly two characteristics we have seen Rysn exhibit fairly strongly, especially Bravery. Taravangian just doesn't fit as well under those.

 

Current speculation is that Dustbringers are sort of the killers of the Radiants. They remove the people that have to be removed, like Sadeas. Given this as the Order's purpose, I'd say Taravangian fits very well. You could even work 'obedient' into his following of the Diagram. I certainly doubt he'll be a Radiant, but he'd fit well into the general theme of a Dustbringer book. Eshonai, similarly, has the themes of the Willshapers present, and she could very easily not be a Radiant.

[signspace13]

I'm in with both Maxal and grey pilgrim, I think it will either be Rysn or Adolin, and seeing that Lift is an interlude character/surgebinder, I think rysn has a good chance. And if climbing down to talk to a greatshell just to make a deal isn't bravery I don't know what is. Adolin is probably a stronger bet for the moment though as he is already a main. I would personally be completely fine with either

Edited May 9, 2014 by signspace13

[Argent]

The thing is, the Divine Attributes are not as rigid as we maybe want them to be - and considering that the Ideals can be very specific, it doesn't seem like it's required for the Kandidates Radiant (seewhatIdidthere) to be 100% true to their attributes, at least not in the beginning. For example, Chana's / the Dustbringers' attributes are brave and obedient:

• Rysn's stunt on the Reshi Isles proves that she is brave (or foolish) and obedient, I don't think we need to - or can - argue this. We'll just have to see whether the (apparent) loss of her legs will be enough to break her to the point where she will attract a spren (unless the larkin can somehow bypass this need, and we don't know of it).
• Taravangian can be considered obedient because he follows the word of a version of himself so far above him in regards to intellect, it might as well be an alien, incomprehensible being. It's an order, a command to himself. He is also brave because he is willing to bear the burdens and consequences of his actions - he (thinks he) knows what needs to be done, and instead of hiding under the bed while the world ends, he starts working on saving the kernel of humanity.
• Adolin is another no-brainer - he is obedient before his father (though it's been a work-in-progress kind of thing for the past couple of books), and his bravery in battle is undeniable. Similarly to Rysn, however, we'll have to see whether his murder of Sadeas (or whether some other event in a later book) will be enough to break him.

Bottom line, out of the three, only Taravangian is obviously broken, but all three could be considered as candidates.

[MistWit]

As to the Herald thing, I think it comes from here. It's worth noting that the other Herald is referred to as "he" (and has a good chance of being Nalan) and that since this WoB Navani will no longer be having a flashback book, Renarin and Lift will, and other things may have changed as well.

source

Okay thanks didn't noticed that it was refered to has "he"

 

Brandon has since WoR basically changed his mind on every character he ever said would be a flashback character for the Second Arc except for Jasnah. I have a feeling that the second Herald he said would be one will almost certainly not be one. If he doesn't change his mind yet again before the end of the series, I am of the belief that the unknown flashback character will be either Taravangian o Rysn. I lean toward Rysn more because if this character is a Dustbringer, I feel she fits more as one than Taravangian, given that the Divine Attributes of Chana are Brave and Obedient. These are certainly two characteristics we have seen Rysn exhibit fairly strongly, especially Bravery. Taravangian just doesn't fit as well under those.

So there will nolonger be a 2nd herald as a flashback character? I hadn't heard that.

 

So Taln, Lift, Renarin, and Jasnah are confirmed leaving Dustbringers.

It does seem most likely that Rysn, Mr T, or Adolin will be the Dustbringer although 5 Kholin flashbacks will probobly be to many (seems like they would start to overlap) so Rysn or Mr T seems a better choice. Out of those 2 Rysn seems to be a better fit for the Dustbringers, brave and obidiant and would make it 5 men and 5 women, which seems more likely than 6 men, 4 women. Travangian on the other hand would have very interesting flashbacks and would probobly be more interesting. We will probobly just have to wait for more information about Dustbringers.

 

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Edited May 9, 2014 by Inquisitor of Wit

[Numb]

This is all with the assumption that there will be only 1 KR of each order. It's entirely possible that Mr. T, Adolin and Rysn all become Dustbringers with only one of them getting a flashback book. 

[Aleksiel]

This is all with the assumption that there will be only 1 KR of each order. It's entirely possible that Mr. T, Adolin and Rysn all become Dustbringers with only one of them getting a flashback book. 

 

It's not that. Each book will focus on one Order and the discussion is who will present the Dustbringers when their book comes out. I think most people don't support the one Radiant per Order theory. 

 

Do we have evidence Eshonai's book won't be about the Dustbringers? She seems like a better match for Willshappers, but I didn't expect Dalinar to be a Bondsmith, so my judgement might be off once again.

[Numb]

The thread just reads more as if people are trying to figure out who the Dustbringer will be instead of who the flashback character will be. While sharing similarities, it's still a different discussion. I think if you look at it just in terms of flashback Mr. T has the most interesting and unexplained story to be told. Adolin while an interesting character now is pretty much a model Kholin. He may have some dilemmas in the past but it'll be along the lines of what we've already seen time and time before. Rysn is similar where her story before adventuring doesn't really seem important. The interludes now are showing us what may help define her personality for the future. Seeing further back in the past while nice doesn't seem that important. 

[Argent]

The thread just reads more as if people are trying to figure out who the Dustbringer will be instead of who the flashback character will be. While sharing similarities, it's still a different discussion. I think if you look at it just in terms of flashback Mr. T has the most interesting and unexplained story to be told. Adolin while an interesting character now is pretty much a model Kholin. He may have some dilemmas in the past but it'll be along the lines of what we've already seen time and time before. Rysn is similar where her story before adventuring doesn't really seem important. The interludes now are showing us what may help define her personality for the future. Seeing further back in the past while nice doesn't seem that important. 

 

While I agree with you, we also have to keep in mind that there will be about a decade between the two 5-book arcs, and a lot could happen during this time. Both Adolin and Rysn could find themselves in a particularly sticky situation at the end of book #5 (exiled, for example), so their flashbacks could be about the period between the arcs, not about the time before the first arc. Imagine, for a moment, that at the end of book #5 Adolin is not yet a Knight, and is sentenced to die. He escapes, the book is over, and next time we see him (in book #6), he is a dark and powerful Radiant vigilante who brings bloody justice throughout Roshar. I'd be really interested in reading about how he got to where he is, find out what his journey was between the arcs. Those would make for some pretty sweet flashbacks.

[GreyPilgrim]

So there will nolonger be a 2nd herald as a flashback character? I hadn't heard that.

It's not that he has expressly denied that there will be a second Herald as a flashback character, but he has said nothing to the effect that there still will be (that I have seen), and there have been numerous reports of people asking him about later flashbackers. It has already been heavily speculated that the last unconfirmed one will he one of the three in this thread (Rysn, Taravangian, and Adolin).

[maxal]

While I agree with you, we also have to keep in mind that there will be about a decade between the two 5-book arcs, and a lot could happen during this time. Both Adolin and Rysn could find themselves in a particularly sticky situation at the end of book #5 (exiled, for example), so their flashbacks could be about the period between the arcs, not about the time before the first arc. Imagine, for a moment, that at the end of book #5 Adolin is not yet a Knight, and is sentenced to die. He escapes, the book is over, and next time we see him (in book #6), he is a dark and powerful Radiant vigilante who brings bloody justice throughout Roshar. I'd be really interested in reading about how he got to where he is, find out what his journey was between the arcs. Those would make for some pretty sweet flashbacks.

 

I would absolutely love to read this story! I agree that Adolin's backstory as of now is probably uninteresting and it will most likely be covered within Renarin and Dalinar's flashbacks. However, many things may happen between the book and the flashback in the second arc could be about that. I strongly suspect Adolin will get separated from his family for a prolonged period of time, there will be a rift between father and son and I believe if he is to survive the series, that he needs some time away from Dalinar in order to become his own man. Plus, this would leave room for a very tearful reunion which would also be awesome to read.

 

I agree Rysn is undoubtedly brave and surely obedient from what we have seen so far. However, she is not a warrior and I wonder how she would fit within a war oriented order such as the Dustbringers. I wouldn't mind seeing her there though. She would be a decent choice.

 

I believe Mr T has the weakest case to become a Dustbringer (or a KR for that matter). Whereas his actions could be seen as brave to some extend, they do not embodied the true definition of bravery: reckless, heroism, intrepidity, courage, etc. Also, I completely do not see him as a Dustbringer (deadly warriors, he is a sickly old man), but that may just be I have been placing Adolin's head there for so long I have trouble seeing anyone else. However, of the three, he may have the strongest case to get his flashback book as his backstory is probably richer (or it currently is, we don't know once we reach book 10).

 

Overall, I would say Adolin has the strongest case to become a Dustbringer, but the weakest case to have his own book. Mr T has the weakest to become a Dustbringer, but he has the strongest case to have his own book. Rysn is in between the two.

 

Edit: Just an extra thought out of nowhere.... Should we start a thread for Rysolin? I mean, we never know.... Two wild ones together, could be fun to read.

Edited May 9, 2014 by maxal

[signspace13]

 

Edit: Just an extra thought out of nowhere.... Should we start a thread for Rysolin? I mean, we never know.... Two wild ones together, could be fun to read.

 

Ha, Rysolin would indeed be awesome. and it would be even more awesome if they were both dustbringers, which at this point is just as likely as either of them becoming one individually, I mean in scadrial, snapping often included an experience of great pain, so Rysn's legs seem just as likely to make her a Radiant candidate as Adolin's deed.

[maxal]

Ha, Rysolin would indeed be awesome. and it would be even more awesome if they were both dustbringers, which at this point is just as likely as either of them becoming one individually, I mean in scadrial, snapping often included an experience of great pain, so Rysn's legs seem just as likely to make her a Radiant candidate as Adolin's deed.

 

It has the potential to be as cute as Adolin and Shallan. Adolin could teach Rysn to fight and Rysn could teach Adolin to be more thoughtful. They are both bold beyond measure and the two of them would make a rather explosive duo I would say.... The lost of legs could indeed be a sufficient experience to acquire the proper level of brokenness. As for Adolin, it is not the deed itself that would break him, but the aftermath and the emotional trauma it would trigger together with the loss of a beloved Ryshadium and having to see all his family being elevated to Radianhood and probably losing the woman he loves. If the guy does not break down at least a little after all that, than he probably never will.

[signspace13]

It has the potential to be as cute as Adolin and Shallan. Adolin could teach Rysn to fight and Rysn could teach Adolin to be more thoughtful. They are both bold beyond measure and the two of them would make a rather explosive duo I would say.... The lost of legs could indeed be a sufficient experience to acquire the proper level of brokenness. As for Adolin, it is not the deed itself that would break him, but the aftermath and the emotional trauma it would trigger together with the loss of a beloved Ryshadium and having to see all his family being elevated to Radianhood and probably losing the woman he loves. If the guy does not break down at least a little after all that, than he probably never will.

Yeah that is what I meant by deed, and I think it would be great, it also frees up shallan for the Shalladin ship which is my other favourite. And yeh it would be awsome seeing adolin to fight.

Another thing I want to know about is what is a larkin? Didn't rysn get one from the reshi after showing her bravery? I question this as we have seen that sone seriously powerful spren seem to inhabit creatures, shown when the spren saves Rysn's life and possibky by the little things that float a round chasm fiends and sky eels, what if one of these spren is what makes you a dust bringer? This is all pure conjecture but I think ot would be amazing if Adolin bonded a chasmfiend LOL.

[maxal]

Yeah that is what I meant by deed, and I think it would be great, it also frees up shallan for the Shalladin ship which is my other favourite. And yeh it would be awsome seeing adolin to fight.

Another thing I want to know about is what is a larkin? Didn't rysn get one from the reshi after showing her bravery? I question this as we have seen that sone seriously powerful spren seem to inhabit creatures, shown when the spren saves Rysn's life and possibky by the little things that float a round chasm fiends and sky eels, what if one of these spren is what makes you a dust bringer? This is all pure conjecture but I think ot would be amazing if Adolin bonded a chasmfiend LOL.

 

On Adolin bonding a chasmfield... I recall Shallan talking to him about her how they should capture young chasmfields in order to raise them, herd them and then collect the gemhearts instead of harvesting them........ I mean, I could see Adolin trying to capture such a creature just to please Shallan and when she breaks up with him he ends up with the thing......... LOL I give it a 0.00000001% of really happening but it would be funny to read.

 

As for the Dustbringer spren, I always imagined them as some sort of flamespren. There seem to be something with Dustbringers and fire, therefore I guess their spren could be analogous to flamespren much like Syl ressemble a windspren.

[signspace13]

On Adolin bonding a chasmfield... I recall Shallan talking to him about her how they should capture young chasmfields in order to raise them, herd them and then collect the gemhearts instead of harvesting them........ I mean, I could see Adolin trying to capture such a creature just to please Shallan and when she breaks up with him he ends up with the thing......... LOL I give it a 0.00000001% of really happening but it would be funny to read.

 

As for the Dustbringer spren, I always imagined them as some sort of flamespren. There seem to be something with Dustbringers and fire, therefore I guess their spren could be analogous to flamespren much like Syl ressemble a windspren.

 

Yeah that would actually be amazing, and yeah i agree with the idea of the Dustbringer spren being to flamespren as Syl is to windspren. but do like the idea of bonding an animals spren to become a radiant, maybe we will see it in other Radiants, i don't want to let the idea drop just yet.

 

all in all i would be fine with Rysn or Adolin with their own books, about their experiences between the two series.

because i don't know if their flashbacks would be all that interesting at the moment.

[A Joe in the Bush]

We know that The greathshells are inhabited with Powerful spren in a Symbiotic Relationship. Rysn showed Bravery and Obedience and the Spren witnessed this. They gave her a Larkin as a Gift. But couldn't the Greatshell Spren talk to the Spren in Shadesmar? We know from Pattern and Wyndle that there are groups of Spren who carefully Choose one spren and One person to bond. Could the ShellSpren influence this choice somehow?

 

(Yes, They're called Shellspren. I dare you to think of a better name.)

[Swimmingly]

Greatspren? Heartspren?